Swatching the Tarot, Managing Anxiety and Embodying the Queen of Wands with Ash Alberg

On episode 11 of Living Tarot, I interview Ash Alberg. Ash is a queer femme and fibre witch who seeks to create beautiful and practical products for fellow makers using sustainable methods. They seek to nurture the skills, knowledge, and creativity of fellow fibre witches to achieve their goals. ash is a natural dyer, knitwear designer, hedgewitch, and parent to the resident coven pooch, willow.  Ash and I had a beautiful conversation about the importance of managing your own energy levels and mental health and playing to your strengths in business.  We discuss how business plans and promoting yourself aren’t one size fits all, and how that can change the way you show up with your clients over time.

  • Ash and I discuss how they have very intentionally set their business up to support the way that their energy flows.
  • We also discuss how intuition and creativity flow when creating knitwear patterns and inspiring new creative ideas like with their “Swatching the Tarot” series.
  • Ash discusses their creative process and the importance of setting your business up to be sustainable no matter what is going on in your life or the outside world.
  • We chat mental health struggles and how you can advocate for yourself by setting boundaries in your business.
  • We also cover how Ash’s tarot practice and connection to intuition have changed over time and how they use tarot to connect in daily life.

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More Show Notes and Transcript

Connect with Sheila:

Book a Tarot or Reiki session at or find her on Instagram

Work with Ash:

Ash’s website or find their natural dye shed work at or find them over on IG at

Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium and creator of practical Tarot for everyday intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure and embodied the tarot along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing. Empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the tarot. 

Welcome back to living Tarot. Today on the podcast I’m so delighted to have my friend Ash Ahlberg. Ash is a queer femme and fiber which who seeks to create beauty and practical products for fellow makers using sustainable methods. Equally importantly, they seek to nurture the skills, knowledge and creativity of fellow fiber witches to achieve their goals. Ash is a natural dyer knitwear designer hedgewitch and parent to the resident coven pooch, Willow. They can be found on Instagram and online at and from field to skin calm. In today’s episode ash and I really discuss how intuition and creativity come together in their work, creating different textile prints and knitwear designs and how in Ash’s work they really embody the Queen of Wands, the 10 of Wands and the Temperance card. Ash is a person after my own heart because they have a heavy fire chart like myself in astrology. And we both really spend a lot of time in the wands where we have a lot of passion projects, and can sometimes be a little bit distracted, which we’ll talk about in this episode, as well as the candid nature with which they discuss mental health issues and how important it is to manage your energy well in business, especially when you are an entrepreneur. So this episode was so much fun to record. I hope that you enjoy it. Let’s dive in. 

Welcome Ash. I’m so excited to have you here today. My internet friend turned real friend asked me Ahlberg. So I asked Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do in the world.

Ash Alberg  2:55  

I am a knitwear designer natural Dyer by trade which is interesting little thing. Yeah. And I am a parent to my resident coven pooch Willow who will probably end up making an appearance on this track at some point, because somebody is going to park in front of the house, of course, or somebody will come to drop something off at Murphy’s Law, and, and I’m a queer femme and I’m a fiber witch and a hedgewitch and a really awkward, socially anxious creature. And I snort.

Sheila M  3:32  

I love that description. So, so much self awareness. You know?

Ash Alberg  3:41  

The theater years.

Sheila M  3:44  

So I and I met in an incubator program for holistic businesses that started just before the pandemic kind of took over everything.

Ash Alberg  3:54  


Sheila M  3:56  

was a particularly emotional time and I feel like part of the reason And why we all bonded so closely to our internet friends, as we say, is because there was all this stuff going on and so I it was so cool because we all are kind of like circling each other in these different these different elements of being similar but but a lot of differences and in particular, when we were talking about your work with creative coven, and all of your network and all of this really cool stuff that is so outside of my experience. I was like, holy shit, this stuff is so cool, and I’ve never I’ve never heard somebody talk about it the way that you that you spoke about your work. Tell us a little bit more about what you do with creative coven.

Ash Alberg  4:47  

Yeah, so I mentioned theater world. I used to do theater for most of my life and then kind of switched gears in my mid 20s in textiles. But a large portion of my life in theater was also teaching theater. And so as I shifted into textiles, teaching was a very natural shift for me there as well. And so a number of years ago, I started teaching knitwear design. And initially, initially, I did it, just to kind of help people get started because our industry is one. That is, it’s great in a lot of ways, and also totally fucked in other, in that anybody can get into it. So that’s a really beautiful thing. But it’s not actually as accessible as that would suggest, because it’s very much like people don’t like to talk about things. They don’t like to talk about their process. They don’t like to talk about their numbers. It took me I think, two years to realize that tech editors even existed, and this was at a time where the industry was very different. Like when I came in, I had a pattern myself. First pattern went viral. And nowadays, like I, I have told people that if my pattern came out nowadays, it would not even make a blip on on the screen. Like, there’s just there’s so much noise out there nowadays, but there’s still just as much confusion. So when I started teaching network design, I wanted to be very transparent about what my process is about how much work is involved, and then also for folks who want to turn it into a business. Understanding that you can love knitting, but that does not automatically mean that you are going to enjoy running a network design business. And if you want to run a business that is actually there to make you money and to support you, then you need to understand how much work is involved in that that has nothing to do with knitting. And so the creative coven is the online version of that and when we went through the incubator. A big part of the shift for me with that was realizing that I’m not like, I enjoy teaching people in person just for casual fun, and, you know, just in just to help them figure out something for themselves, but online with this particular course, what I really wanted to do was focus on people who want to make knitwear design their business like a core part of their income. And who wants to do that seriously. And so I beefed up the business side of the course and added in more content and and I’m about to reopen the doors in about a month and a half time maybe like six weeks, I think from when we’re recording this and, and it’s going to look even more different because I have as of today, move on moved away from Ravelry, which is the largest color a platform for my industry. And there’s a lot of reasons behind that which my audience has been hearing about for an extended period of time. And it wasn’t a single thing that that made me choose to leave. But it’s been about six months of dealing with bullshit on my end hearing stories from friends and colleagues, and then seeing how other people were treated by the the core staff there. And realizing that if it was any other platform, I wouldn’t have even questioned it. And so the fact that it felt like there was such a, it felt like a breakup, when I decided to leave, it felt very scary, but I think also it’s important for, like, the reasons that ultimately I chose to to leave was because I had finally gotten myself to a point with my business where I could structure that shift. Also where ultimately it came down to the numbers and realizing that that I was in a position to leave the platform and not have it immediately directly impact my bottom line. And so I was very grateful to be in that position because I also have a lot of designer friends who are not in that position where all of their income comes from that platform. And so they can’t afford to make the shift and I would never want any of my students to feel like they are stuck somewhere and where they don’t have control over their own content. And so I’m going to be adding more business content to this next round of creative coven.

Just to help people so that like right from the get go instead of being in my position where it took, you know, many months of me deciding Okay, this is the thing I need to do and at least I’m in the position to start to do this. And it is still scary but I’m I’m able to shift myself away. And for my students to be in the position to right from the beginning structure things in a way where they always have at least one place where they contain all of their content that is with fully within their control. And not rely on time because you know, like, so it’s same with like, like, you know, with, with Tarot and with wellness industries, like we spend so much time on third party platforms, including on social media platforms. And we don’t always especially for those of us who get into business, because of our love for something else, and don’t come at it immediately from a business position. Yeah, that kind of learn business along the way. It’s it can be really easy to kind of build up a reliance on a specific platform that ultimately we don’t have control over. And then when you know like when Instagram changes their algorithm like businesses can go under because the algorithm changes the way that they’re able to interact with their customer base. So it’s like, it’s a lot of that like weird stuff that we don’t talk about, especially in Creative Industries. And that is also really important if you want this to be something where you are, you are able to craft a life that supports you and, and allows you to live a life of abundance and that doesn’t just mean a life of like making you know, six figure blah, blah, blah. Like that’s not what I’m talking about, but living a life where you are comfortable and where when a pandemic hits, or when shit hits the fan that you’re not immediately in like terrified mode. Yeah, I think that was a weird thing when the pandemic hit and realizing like oh wait for the first time ever. I am the person in my you know, social group who has a stable job and to be like the self employed Boyd, creative small business owner who’s like, I’m the one who has actual control. And this time I got my shit together, right? Like That was a weird thing. But it was like it was because ultimately we have all the control, right? Like you control how you respond in situations like that, like you control how you pivot and all of these things. So I think weirdly enough, launching relaunching creative covenant and revamping it turning a pandemic was actually really useful, because I was actively putting into practice the lessons that I think are most important for creative biz owners.

Sheila M  12:40  

Yeah, and I love that you’re speaking to that too, because I think that’s something that’s really important that can happen a lot. When we are doing something creative or something that we really like something very heartfelt.  And because when you turn it from this is my hobby. I really enjoy doing this thing. This is my outlet it’s where I like burn off all my crazy energy or whatever. And you take it and make it the thing that you are reliant on in order to make money. It first of all to can take away that outlet that you initially had.

Ash Alberg  13:17  


Sheila M  13:18  

I think there is a real resistance especially when it comes to creative work to talking about the business side of it that is so important because especially when you’re working creatively and with creative energy, you really need to be efficient with the way that you’re managing your time and energy. So that you can show up as your best self when you’re trying to be creative. 

Ash Alberg  13:39  

Totally, because it’s also like we I mean, for me, especially I also I’m Venus Pisces so like there’s that. Like, I personally and I think a lot of us take things so personally, in terms of whether or not somebody likes our work, like when you get you know, a shitty comment on Social media or somebody sends you a mean email or even like a you know, not even a mean email just one that’s like no, I didn’t love this thing, or you know somebody unsubscribes to you like, that hurts at your core because it feels like somebody is rejecting you, which is bullshit, but and may actually be the case like maybe they are rejecting you, but that is, you know, part of businesses really honing in on your niche, which means you’re going to repel people that you don’t want, which is also something that I have done very intentionally and actively choose to do on an ongoing basis. Like, you know, I don’t want Nazis liking my work. So I’ve made calling them Nazis and being a bitch to them. Instead of pretending like oh, yeah, no, this is okay. And then like all being like, by the way, like, here’s one post about something like no, I’m actively talking about my values all the time, which means that I have a much smaller audience than a lot of us. Folks, but also a much more committed audience, and one that shares my values, which is great when shit hits the fan for me personally, because I can be like, hey, shit hit the fan and they’re like, cool. We understand we’ll be here when you need like when you come back. Yeah, but it’s it’s doesn’t stop me from I think the only time that I have ever not taken negative feedback, personally to some extent was last year I ended up on a boycott list with a number of other knitwear designers for Nazis like not Nazis and white supremacists were like boycott these people. And I was on that list. I was like, cool, that sounds good. Like I’m alright with this.

Sheila M  15:42  

You’re making it Yeah.

Ash Alberg  15:45  

Like I’m a company on this list too. But and that also then had to like go and make sure that I was doing some like, safety things for myself because I was like, cool. I’m on people’s radar. That’s this particular situation is not necessarily one where I want to be on people. Are and since I am, let’s make some shifts in terms of just like online safety not in terms of the way that I share my views or my values. Right, right. sort of made me double down, actually, but normally, you know, somebody will, you know, I’ll go into MailChimp to like, tidy up and archive people who have unsubscribed so I’m not paying for them. Which means you’re manually checking and seeing every single person who’s unsubscribed and it’ll be like five people and it feels like suck. It feels like you’ve broken up with five people at it. 

Sheila M  16:35  

Yeah I have Venus in cancer, so I get it. 

Ash Alberg  16:38  

Yeah. Feels all the time. Not Yeah.

Sheila M  16:43  

And it’s funny because I have I feel like I have both sides of it because I’ve also kind of been a polarizing person my whole life and had a very hard time not just saying what I think about things like that’s very hard. It’s very hard for me to hold back and opinion Even when it’s not requested, right? Yes. And so I’ve always been kind of polarizing, but then like, I still would have that reaction sometimes. But I think, you know, there definitely comes some wisdom with age and also some thicker skin, I think with running a business where you do recognize that, like, there are plenty of people whose work I don’t like, and it’s not that I don’t like them personally. I mean, some of them, it’s I don’t like them personally, but

Ash Alberg  17:25  

but for the most part,

Sheila M  17:26  

yeah, for the most part, it’s just like, I just don’t really connect with the way they speak about it or its just not myexperience or whatever it is. And, and I think that’s important to recognize, too, that for the most part, it’s not personal. It’s, you know, it’s like dating or anything else. Like, it’s just not that person’s cup of tea.

Ash Alberg  17:42  

Yeah. And like, you can also change your mind about somebody and that’s okay, too, right. Like, it’s, I feel like it’s harder when somebody who has been following you for a while, is like, I don’t want to continue and then that feels hard. But then it’s also like, Oh, that’s like we’re also allowed to change our minds. I’ve totally done that with people. And then there’s also the people were like, I haven’t I no longer open their emails, like I don’t follow anything about it, but I won’t like officially unsubscribe or like stick them on mute just so that I might like, you know, there’s that like, kind of a weird thing to have, like, maybe I’ll change my mind. But right now, you’re not somebody I want to be seeing. And I also like, I am a huge fan of the mute button on Instagram because it like, one thing that I noticed is that when I am in a not good headspace, especially like when my anxiety is is spiking. Then I also will notice that other negative emotions are not automatically negative, but like my jealousy will spike, which for me is always like if I’m scrolling and three photos in a row. I’m like, I’m grumbling to myself about whatever it is I’m like, Oh, no, this is this is me. I need to take a break and get off the fucking app. But also, if there’s like a specific person And who is triggering those reactions and me, I’m like, okay, for whatever reason, this person who normally I like their content, or who even I like as a person, and they’re a good friend of mine, for whatever reason right now seeing their content is making me feel insecure, which means that I need to do some work in that little area. But also, I don’t need to be exposing myself to these triggers while I’m doing that work. And then like having negative feelings associated with that person who isn’t doing anything wrong, like they’re just doing their shit. Yeah, so then I’ll just, you know, pop them on mute for a little while and I have definitely made more use than usual of the mute button since pandemic kicked in. I’m like, my, my boundaries are very, like, it’s not black and white, but like that line has become very thin. It’s like, I have energy and then all sudden, it’s like, I have no energy. There’s Yeah.

Sheila M  19:55  

And I think recognizing that I think that the bar is lower for for feeling overwhelmed. Then it would normally be, yeah. And I think, um, you know, we talk to the rest of our friends who were in that incubator with us. And it’s such a nice opportunity to get feedback from other people that are going through the same thing and normalize some of that.  It’s normal to feel especially overwhelmed right now. And like one person speaks up, and then like four other people are like, Oh, my God, thank God, me too.

Ash Alberg  20:25  

Yeah, I also really appreciate that there’s so many astrologers in our group, because like, that’s something that I’m not that my skills in that area are not that strong, fully believe in it, but I just don’t understand else. But it’s like, I’ll be like, I’m having these fields. And then like, Davis will pop up and be like, this is what’s happening. And you’re like, oh, cool, not just me. Good to know.

Sheila M  20:44  

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I love that. So, can you talk a little bit more about how and how things have kind of evolved for you over time and what your relationship is like with intuition, because I Know that there is like a deep connection between you kind of almost like channeling something that goes into this creativity and I so strongly believe that that like artistic creativity and like crafter creativity is like a a type of intuition that some people have very strong and some people have very gentle and the intuition is more than just like psychic stuff which I really want to normalize.

Ash Alberg  21:28  

Yes. And yeah, so I have always been I’ve always listen to my gut and trusted it. And I think like throughout my life there have been times where I’m more and less, more or less in tune with it. And, and where I have applied it in different ways. But I like from a young age I knew that linear time didn’t really exist for me and in particular when shit was hitting the fan that like there, there was a chunk of time where I was very scared when time slowed down drastically because it meant something really bad was actively happening. And now with the pandemic, literally all the time, like linear time has not existed for me for about six months, which is frustrating. Also sort of gratifying because there are so many other people who are like, yeah, like that feels like blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, yeah, this is my life all the time. So I’m glad that now other people are cluing into this. But also being a very emotional creature, and also being a very anxious creature, like my baseline is a pretty high level of anxiety and I do a lot to be actively working with it and keeping it at a low enough baseline where my body isn’t just constantly vibrating, because that’s not healthy for me. And also my anxiety manifests itself very physically in my body. body so that’s always a fun time. And by that, I mean not at all. So I, I would say that like energy in my body has always been something that physically I am very attuned to, and I have to be. And in my, like now I’m 30, but throughout my 20s I’ve learned to become extremely attuned to it. And my years in theater definitely helped me to become more self aware. Also, once I became aware of my birth chart had made a lot more sense. Like I said, My Venus is in Pisces, and then my three main signs are all fire so it’s just like all the feelings all the time. There’s not really I don’t I don’t do chill.

Sheila M  23:46  

That’s why we get along so well

Ash Alberg  23:52  

Yeah. But But yeah, it’s become really interesting because all So then running a business when you don’t do chill, and when all of your feelings, especially the negative ones can drastically impact your ability to get work done. And I’ve had to become a lot more in tune to my intuition. And, and to my body and, and what it is feeling. And then also just like trusting the universe, like, I fully believe in the rule of three, which is also why I don’t spell cast. And when I throw hexes, I do it completely unintentionally. Because I don’t actually want to do that. Like, I don’t want to put that energy out into the world. And just in case it goes wrong, like even like love spells and shit like that. I’m like, a if that, like, if the universe wants it to happen, it’s going to happen. If the universe doesn’t want it to happen, and you try and force it, you’re going to piss somebody off, and then you’re going to get in trouble. So let’s just avoid that. So but then the way that I do my magic instead is very much just like working with clothes. And working with stones and working with the earth and, and spirits and cosmos and everything and just kind of like being open to them and listening to what they want and what they’re willing to offer. And then working with those things accordingly. And so it it’s become really interesting to because with the divination side of things like with Tarot and astrology, and that, sometimes I’m like, I’ll feel like something is not good. And I have to remember to trust that the like, I’m also Sagittarius rising and Moon so like, ultimately, I am an optimist at heart, which I think helps. But I have to, like remove the anxiety from my intuition sometimes. And, and usually, that’s actually when I go to my tarot deck like when I’m starting to feel really overwhelmed and like, I’m terrified that something bad is gonna happen. I go to my deck, and I will pull cards and like 99% of the time, it’s like, No, you just need to chill the fuck out. which I appreciate because I need that lesson. But then the 1% of the time where it’s like, nope, this is going to be hard, then I’m like, okay, at least I feel prepared for the fact that it’s going to be hard. 

Sheila M  26:20  

Yeah. And you’re speaking something that, that I experienced so much. And one of the things that I I literally, like, teach it in my free Tarot for Real Life training, because I think so many people struggle to tell the difference between anxiety and intuition, because you don’t have the same embodied experience that you’ve worked so hard to have. It can feel very real. And it can be hard to hear anything other than anxiety. 

Ash Alberg  26:50  


Sheila M  26:50  

So I think that’s really important. And I love that you’re talking about how Taro can help with that too, because that’s like, it’s literally one of like, the main things that I focus on because I’m like I said, As soon as you look at the card, your brain has to switch out of anxiety mode to interpret it. So it has to!

Ash Alberg  27:07  

Exactly like again, during pandemic, I’ve just had a lot of feels over the last six months. And, and been kind of like forced to look at some things head on that I was avoiding for an extended period of time like years. And just kind of like face some stuff that I was just casually working, like do choosing to do work, not on it, but in in order to avoid us, and was just like, I’m busy all the time. I don’t have time for this. And now it’s like, No, you actually need to deal with this shit. And so there have been a number of times during the last six months where I have been like extremely anxious about something and been either crying or on the verge of it or not realizing actually a number of times it’s been that I don’t realize I need to cry. And so But I can feel that I’m just like getting way too overwhelmed and so I will go and I will take my deck and I’ll pull cards and then I will start crying because it’s it you know tells me that I need to chill the fuck out and to just like trust what’s happening and that because my anxiety is very good at making up stories that don’t exist in real life and and then I you know, do my little spiral as a result and catastrophizing and all those fun things that are part of anxiety and the cards will help me to calm down and kind of pull myself out of that catastrophizing. So, so yeah, I’ve really come to rely on my deck in the last little while in a way that I didn’t add that I didn’t before.

Sheila M  27:46  

I love that I think. I think that is certainly my experience right now is is relying in I think a different way than I had over the past even since because it’s been about a year and a half. Now that I left my corporate job and when I was going through that transition again, similar energy where I was like, ooooh I’m so anxious and it was like, every day, I was like pulling cards and every day I was crying. And I had a couple episodes, but I’m like, just because something is in alignment doesn’t mean that it feels good when you’re doing it

Yes, it’s man 

It’s still uncomfortable. Yeah. And I’ve noticed too, that I think even just up to like, last week, and right now we’re in I don’t even know, it’s the first of September when we’re recording this. So when we, when, when I kind of hit like the last week of August, I don’t know what it was. I don’t know if I was super busy up until then, like doing all kinds of stuff and working on projects and working on my course and everything or, or if it was just like, I kind of reached my threshold of like six months and like my body was finally like, okay, like, we can’t be in emergency triage mode anymore. Like just like complete shutdown. Yeah. For the past like week and a half. I’ve been like very much in a mode. have like, Okay, let me just pull and pull and pull and like cry and  deal with things. Yeah,

Ash Alberg  30:06  


Sheila M  30:07  

Let me process six months worth of trauma in one week.

Ash Alberg  30:11  

That’s the thing too though. Like, I think that this is something I mean, I’ve definitely recognized it because I have trauma brain from other things – yay life. But pandemic mode has absolutely kicked trauma brain into gear for so many of us. And I think I mean, I honestly believe that those of us who are anxious are going to be like the most useful creatures in the apocalypse, because we’re highly attuned and we’re also terrified of shit going wrong all the time. So we’re like, very aware of like, what’s our escape routes? How do we do it? Like, you know, you’re you’ve got like, six different trains on any given track at any given time, ready to go, which I think when the zombies come will be really useful. But it also has been like, during pandemic, I feel like those of us with mental health issues for like, who have been actively working with our mental health, prior to pandemic, are, are actually the least fucked up as a result of pandemic because we already were working on tools whereas everybody’s being impacted by this whether they acknowledge it or not, like there’s a low key shift in the baseline of anxiety for everybody and in the states like I can’t even – I’m in Canada right now like, watching shit, I was literally like, I’ve stopped being able to consume most news content beyond just like what gets shared between podcasts I listen to and, and social media and all that but like I have stopped watching or reading the news, because I just can’t. And I consume enough of that content through the channels that I choose to be consuming it through. But like the only way that I’ve been listening to day to day news has been Trevor Noah and I was like I can do with this like the satire level. I can do this It’s fine. And then I think it was like, four nights ago, maybe it was after Jacob Blake. And then after that piece of shit went and shock protesters and he was talking about it. And my problem is that I listened to Trevor Noah as I’m going to sleep, I’m like, this is a good thing to listen to before I go to bed. So I’m literally lying in bed, listening to this, and I was like, there’s gonna be a war, there’s gonna be a war. This was not helpful. not helpful at all.

And so yeah, I like can’t even imagine, because Canada has got its own shit. But like, I actually cannot imagine what my baseline would be if I was living down there right now. Yeah.

Sheila M  32:44  

I mean, it’s true. And I think there’s there’s a lot of truth to what you said too about. It’s, it’s this interesting paradox that comes up that I noticed anyway, as somebody who has struggled with mental health issues for more of my life than I haven’t, you know, I will Yeah. And where people know that about you and then we’ll like doubt your ability to know where you are because you ahve been vocal about it and I’m like, yep. Are you kidding? Like, I am the one person that seems to know how to  fucking handle my shit right now and Yes,

Ash Alberg  33:19  


Sheila M  33:20  

I am like, you know, I’ve learned enough how to express it doesn’t mean that you need to advocate for me, I’m actually doing a better job advocating for myself. It’s this really frustrating thing that comes up do you experience that also?

Ash Alberg  33:35  

A hundred percent and also like for folks who don’t, especially with anxiety, right, because I think that it’s on the one hand, it’s like massively minimized in our society and then also so normalized in other ways that people don’t like folks that don’t live with anxiety on an ongoing basis, at all, uh, don’t understand like how debilitating it can be, and especially when aren’t like I am a high functioning anxious person. So it looks like I have my shit together. And also, part of how I control my anxiety is by channeling it when I’m doing well, when I’m not doing well, I can’t eat. And my emotions run amok, because my emotions are already just like simmering right underneath my skin, and then they just burst forth. And it’s not fun for anybody including me. But the folks who don’t have like have not lived with anxiety for an extended period of time. And who don’t understand that like, like, for me, I’ve spent the last decade plus of my life learning how to actively be managing my anxiety. Yeah, and so the fact that I am in kind of a constant trigger mode lately because of pandemic and because of other things and I articulate that to people makes it seem as though I don’t have my shit together. And I’m like, No, the reason that I am articulating this Because I have learned the language of it and because I am actively consciously constantly working on keeping it at a low enough level, and because it physically manifests itself in such extreme ways, when it does that, I know that I also cannot afford to indulge it right. Like, I have spent years of my life at much worse levels of anxiety, where I was extremely unhealthy, and also allowed it to, to continue. And now, I don’t do that. But yeah, a really bad day of anxiety. Like I will tell people like this is where I’m at. And then it seems as though like, Oh, well, your anxiety like I don’t know if I can handle your anxiety and I’m like, I’m not asking you to. I’m just telling you that this is where my baseline is at today, so that when I snap at you for no reason, and then I apologize. 20 minutes later. You also know that when I snap at you, it’s not your fault like that. That’s me And I will, I am, at least at the point now in my life, where I have it under enough control that I can recognize that it’s my anxiety that is at play, and then apologize after the fact like I am still responsible for my actions, regardless of what my level of anxiety is exactly. Possible means also then articulating to you like, by the way, I’m very anxious, that thing that you did, it’s not your fault. I’m just letting you know that the reason I did that is because of this. And I am sorry that you are getting the brunt of it. 

Sheila M  36:30  

Yeah, yeah. And I think I think it’s so important to, to differentiate between the two because like you said, if you see somebody who has high functioning anxiety, or high functioning depression, or whatever it is, and they just tell you in a calm way that that’s what’s going on. People don’t quite, they don’t quite understand how to handle that. And then and then it becomes like, well, you seem okay, so like, do I need to keep asking, Are you okay? And so It’s very it’s very interesting that experience

Ash Alberg  37:03  

Yeah. And it also then becomes interesting because like when you do have really under control, then it’s like oh well you’re better or it’s like oh well this is not as big of a deal it’s like no it just means that for this week if I’m lucky, I managed to keep it much more under control and that’s but that’s not because I’m not actively working on it like the amount of labor that I am constantly doing to keep my anxiety in a reasonable spot is massive and also like part of why it is just constantly there’s because I’m choosing to not numb it whereas I’ve done that before too right where it’s like right Lloyd the situations that are going to bring it more to the forefront which are also generally the situations for me at least that are making me more complete human right like interaction Yeah, like care about are more likely to bring up feelings of anxiety because I care about them. Like I could easily just avoid those situations and just focus on work. And then I’m, you know, the roller coaster becomes much less of an up and down. But that’s because I am not adding in stimuli that could cause it to go up and down when it’s the up and down that makes us humans. Yeah.

Sheila M  38:22  

And I think that’s important too, because I think that avoidance is rewarded.

Ash Alberg  38:26  


Sheila M  38:28  

like, Oh, I’m so busy, like, I’ve got so much going on. And it’s constantly an end in our generation as well. Also somewhat normalized, because there’s like this hustle culture that has been there. I graduated school in December 2007. I graduated college, and you know, like three months later was the market crash and like just disaster. And so, for so many millennials Our entire careers have been okay I work this job and also I work this side job and then I also work this night job

Ash Alberg  39:10  

yeah and it’s so unhealthy like the I I recently – so with our incubator, you know, we were learning launch skills and I did a second launch about a month ago and that launch happened to overlap with like, a massively bad week of anxiety for me like I was a fucking mess. And because I had structured my launch because I knew what to do and because I you know, followed our formula, I right before it started, everything was ready and pre scheduled and set to go. And I knew like what I needed to do and I had made a point because I don’t like showing up online for people- I don’t like customer service, which is funny considering my business, but I do I really, really dislike customer service. And so I had set up my launch so that I needed to do as little active interactions with people as possible. And so then, as it started, and as money started to roll in, and my mental health went through the shitter, I was suddenly in a position where I was able to take the time I needed whenever a moment happened, that my mental health really went through, like, down into the toilet because it was a very up and down week with a lot of downs and I was able to be like, Okay, I’m signing off of Instagram for the rest of the day. It’s like two o’clock in the afternoon. I’m in a launch week, and I am getting my ass off of social media. And I’m putting on Netflix and I am bingeing some show. I don’t even remember what the fuck I binge that week, but I’m going to binge something and I’m going to read books and I’m going to have bath, and I’m going to be taking my tinctures constantly and I’m going to be in my kitchen and making things that like I was able to do whatever my body felt like it needed. Again, following intuition, like what does my body need? What it is, what is it craving right now, and I would do whatever that thing was, which thankfully, generally, my body craves healthy things for me. So I am grateful to it for that and, and, and the money was still coming in. And so having that experience of like not being in scarcity mode and not being in fear mode on top of then also dealing with my mental health, separate from work was massive and made me realize just how fucked up, I mean, like, we know capitalism is fucked but especially like hustle culture and gig economies. And this idea I think, especially like I’m, I’m in the queer community, so like this idea. That we need to be constantly struggling, and that if you ever find a place of like, you know, we’re always going for the ideal of like, abundance in a broader term than just financial sense and, and ease and peace, but to actually achieve it is now you’re a bad person because you must have sold out something in order to get to that point. And it was like No, I actually have just learned the skills to be able to put this into place and, and be able to offer something that I really care about, and that I think has value to my audience and my audience also sees value in it and in, appreciates it and enjoys it and wants it and that they then pay me for it and that that then gives me the space living under capitalism to be able to take time to take care of my body and myself and my mental health because I’m not worried about whether I’m going to be able to pay my mortgage this month or not? 

Sheila M  43:02  

I think that’s so important. So, a lot. What I appreciate and what I admire so much about your business is how intentional you’ve been about what your values are what you won’t do and what you will do. Was that always the case? Or is that your kind of learning experience over time?

Ash Alberg  43:23  

I mean, it’s a bit of both, but mostly, like mostly Yes, that is the case. And it’s, I’m an Aries sun, so I don’t play well with others if I don’t want to. So and I’ve worked traditional jobs sort of traditional, like I’ve worked in nonprofit worlds, and before that, in arts world and both of which are notoriously underfunded, and notoriously good at taking your passion and sucking you dry out of it. Because my Aha, that like, there’s not the funding for it. But we still expect you to like, give your body and soul for it because you care about it. And you’re passionate about it. And the only reason that you would accept these shitty working conditions is because you’re passionate about it. 

Sheila M  44:13  


Ash Alberg  44:14  

I think that that’s bullshit. And I yeah, I also don’t believe in hierarchies, which has actually served me very well when I worked in traditional businesses, because, you know, I remember going to work at one job. And the very first day my boss came in and yelled at me and I yelled back at her because she yelled at me for no reason. Not as far as I was concerned. I was like, that’s not a good reason to yell at me. I’m gonna yell back. It’s my automatic response. Again, Aries Aries. So like, Yeah, kind of like at the tone of like, oh, okay, like, this doesn’t work. But I’m also like, Yeah, I don’t believe in artificial hierarchies. I think it’s bullshit. Like you don’t get to just automatically demand respect and treat people like shit and I think Like, if you’re going to be treated like shit, it’s because you deserve to be treated like shit because you are doing something shitty that harm somebody else. And then that if you get respect it is because you have shown that you are offering respect as well. Like I don’t think that just because you have X amount of money or you hold a particular position or your, you know, whatever number of years old that you automatically deserve more respect than somebody else does. I think we all deserve like a baseline level of respect. And if you show that you are not going to give that to others, then I’m not going to automatically respect you. Yeah. Until you until you prove to me that you don’t deserve it, and then I will happily remove my respect. And but I think that very strong opinion about how I am willing to engage with other people. And then also the fact that I am a very emotional creature. I do take things very personally. And I know that my emotional space impacts my ability to do my work. And so I don’t have much patience for generally like honestly it’s people who are really entitled or people who are rude and who like for me my business has always come from my core values. And so if you come at me and are complaining about you know, well I don’t want you to be so political about something I will tell you to fuck off. Because I don’t want your money be I would rather get like, I think for me, a big part of it is that I I have always believed that and this is absolutely coming from a place of privilege because I grew up middle class and I do have a safety net. In terms of if she were to truly hit the fan. I have, you know, people and family and chosen family around He would be able to support me if she had truly hit the fan. So there’s absolutely privilege within that, that gives me them the space to be able to say, you know, you being an asshole to me, does not mean that I have to take you being an asshole to me. And, and the emotional labor like also generally in my experience, the people who are the worst customers are also honestly customers who are not willing to spend that much money on me. So I’m like the emotional labor that is involved in me dealing with you in any sort of ongoing basis is not worth whatever money you could give me even if you like, I will be your silent patron, and I will float ever I don’t have one of those but like, if somebody was to come to me and say, you know, like, I will cover all of your basic expenses and more. But you need to, you know, listen to whatever I have to say and what I have to say is shitty I would tell you to fuck off because ultimately I would rather hustle and work hard and feel good about my choices than to take money.

Sheila M  48:14  

Hey there, I want you to be the first to know that I am offering a free training Tarot for Real Life Get your Shit Together with the Tarot on Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 12pm ET.  This workshop is extremely powerful. It talks about the top mistakes that new Tarot readers make. We’ll cover the neuroscience of Tarot and how it can stop the anxiety cycle and the exact steps to follow to start reading effectively and efficiently for yourself. This is where the spirituality of the Tarot meets real life situations. And my goal is to have you leave that workshop either with a reboot to your tarot reading or if you’re a brand new beginner with a good idea of how to get started. So you can sign up for that free workshop in the show notes today. Or if you already know that you are really interested in signing up for a tarot course, I will be opening the doors for my Tarot course for the last time for 2020 the course is called Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. It is a seven week Tarot course that takes you from a brand new beginner to tarot reading Pro, and helps you learn how to bring that practice into real life, how to use the Tarot to help you make complex decisions effortlessly. So if that sounds good to you, you can sign up for the waitlist in the show notes today. 

We were talking a little bit about setting boundaries with the type of customers that you want and I think you make a really good point, too because I had that experience somewhat early on where because I am a medium I think people think that that goes across to everything, but I how it works for me and this is not true for everyone. So I understand the misunderstanding that exists is valid but I’m very intentional and in my offerings about what each thing is and the fact that when I read Tarot, I typically am not doing mediumship because, yeah, I consider Tarot to be like the human channel, and to be like a slightly different channel. And I don’t really do them both at once. They’re kind of different for me. So every once in a while somebody will pop in, because that’s just like my experience, but for the most part, I’m just reading for a person and last year when I did my New Year’s offering, I did like a new year like you’re a head Tarot offering and I had a woman, who I think was expected Because I was a medium I was going to give her a mediumship reading but that was not

Ash Alberg  51:04  

not what you paid for like it says Tarot reading

Sheila M  51:09  

Yeah. And like literally, like was so specific in the language around it because I had found that some people got confused about that. So before you order something with me literally have to click a box that like says that you understand that that is not what you’re getting. And she still was not happy with it and it was like the strangest experience because she kept being like, No, no, no. And I was like is what I’m saying not accurate. And she was like, no, it’s no you’re 100% right. Like all of that is true. But like I thought because you were medium like you would talk to like the spirits or whatever. And I was like well I am kind of talking to spirit.

Ash Alberg  51:49  

like yeah, like but it’s like a different thing but you’re like you’re speaking to like the general universe

Sheila M  51:54  

And I was so frustared him and so I after 20 minutes I just ended the reading and just told her I would refund her and told her to go back to whoever she went to before because she kept saying like, “Well, when I got this done before”, and I was like, well, we’re all different, like, yes, it’s not interchangeable. And I was so like, it was such a bad experience. And I was really like, I took it like really personally, and I was like, Oh my gosh, like, What if she wakes me up crappy reviews, like all of this? Yeah. Because when you’re like service based, it is scary because you’re like, at the mercy whatever shitty thing people want to say. 

Ash Alberg  52:32  

And reviews are bullshit like reviews. I can’t remember I was listening to I think it was a podcast recently and the person was literally like, Do not leave a four star review. You either leave a five star review or you don’t leave any reviews, which is true because it’s like, realistically with reviews. The only things that get left are either really shitty reviews, or really great reviews and there are not that many great reviews and we need them to then offset the shitty ones. But like anybody who has had an OK experience is not then going to go and leave an okay review. Like they’re not going to take time out of their day to be like this was this was what I needed like this was adequate. Like, you’re not going to this was the thing that I requested nothing more what

Sheila M  53:19  

Yeah. And funny about reading Tarot too and it’s one of the things that I’ve talked about in some of the online in one of the online communities that we’re in together is that, um, so often when I am doing the reading, it’s not that it’s terribly predictive. It’s just that it’s usually kind of, it’s usually a little ahead of when the person is experiencing that thing. So we’ll kind of see like the current picture, but sometimes I’ll say something and people are like, I mean, that sounds like it could happen, but like they leave the reading and they’re like, yeah, I mean, that makes sense. And then like a month later, they’re like, holy shit, it makes so much sense now, but like I didn’t really realize what was going on and I think especially when you’re in Newer reader, it can be really like stressful because you feel like so much of like your worthiness as a reader is tied to people’s experience of what you’re doing.

Ash Alberg  54:13  

Yes, yeah. 100% I mean, it’s also why like, I basically only read for myself and yeah, occasionally I will read for other people, but I’m like, I because yeah, it is that thing of like, if you if you read something, and then you express it in a way where it doesn’t resonate with the other person immediately, then it feels like you’ve done a bad reading, which is not like that’s not necessarily the case. You may have like, you may have read it wrong. That’s entirely possible. But like, it’s more likely that you’ve either expressed it in a way where it’s not hitting home for that person, or that you it just hasn’t happened yet.

Sheila M  54:53  

Yeah. And I think it’s like it’s a different level of intuition to be like, Okay, I’m just going to be open because it’s not a message for me, it’s a message for who I’m reading for. And so it just like kind of allowing yourself to be the channel that things run through is hard for people because you -and especially hard if you are a fire sign because you have to take your ego out of it completely and just be like, it’s not about me, it’s not about me, it’s not about me. 

Ash Alberg  55:22  

I’m just, I don’t even know how to do it. 

Sheila M  55:27  

I mean, and it’s also a shit ton of practice, you know, I mean, it’s a lot of practice. So on the topic of Tarot, let’s talk a little bit about Swatching the Tarot, which I love so much, can you tell us what it is what it is and and what was kind of the genesis of creating it.

Ash Alberg  55:45  

Yes, I’m having a lot of fun with it. Okay, so it’s had sort of like a few different things that have kicked it off. But when I relaunched creative coven six months ago, or whatever was now five months ago maybe I the thing that kind of relaunches it for for people, other people is the creative coven challenge, which is a five day free challenge that I lead people through you get homework each day and by the end of the week, you go from having no idea because I ideally would like people to come in just like totally blank slate open to whatever ends up happening. And then by the end of the week, you have a swatch, which for you non knitters is just like basically like a doodle with yarn. And so it’s like the the very beginnings of an idea that will be has the, the ability to become a new knitwear design. And, and so, when I was doing it for myself, because I also do the creative govern challenge alongside alongside participants, I ended up being inspired. So the deck that I use, I have my dad’s rider Waite deck actually, which is pretty cool. I love that. I love that. It’s like generational. Yeah. Yeah, it was my first deck. And I asked him one time actually a side note but like my so my grandma is my dad’s side is Eastern European. And my grandma is Polish but grew up with her and in what was then Czechoslovakia, and much to her aunt’s chagrin, she spent basically all our time running around with gypsies and so learn a lot of their magic from them, which was super fucking cool. Unfortunately, she died before I really kind of like tuned into she was extremely powerful. Yeah, not realize. Like I sort of knew it in terms of like, you know, you ask grandma to interpret some dreams and then other dreams. You know, just don’t ask her because you don’t want to know and but she passed away before I was really kind of getting into my own magic, and so I, I don’t do any of that work myself. So I don’t know what her experience was with cards. But considering her ability to read dreams, I feel like she would be very good at it. But so my dad just like randomly taught himself how to read cards. So I got his deck, but then the deck that I use most frequently, like 99% of the time is the Wanderers Tarot, and I’ve always just found it like a very easy deck to read. I love the artwork on it, I have one of the first decks so it’s just this like beautiful black background and white line drawings. And I’ve just always found it a very easy deck to read, which is also why I don’t really have that many decks, including Oracle decks, because that’s not really been my experience with basically anyone any other one that I’ve picked up. And so I just don’t use them, so don’t collect them. But I decided to – when I was doing the challenge I like went and I was taking you know going through the the inspiration portion of it and I was pulling Tarot and I was like, I want to make a collection inspired by Taro and I did the math and like I knit and design at a ridiculous pace like I, I do it at a at a pace that is not sustainable, and not healthy. And I’m aware of this fact and even at that pace to create a collection that is inspired by every card in the Tarot would take me about six and a half years, so like, probably not the most sustainable thing. I will probably hate both the Tarot deck and my knitting by the end of that six and a half years. But I can make swatches because swatches take me about three weeks at a time or three weeks, three hours. to knit up a swatch. And then I can kind of take it from there. But I was like, I, this is the thing that I’m really enjoying. I’m inspired by it right now. Like, I want to play with it right now, I don’t want to spend six and a half years hoarding ideas away, and then release them. Because that just is not as much fun because there is that bit of like, when you’re working on it on a collection itself, you know, you keep it under wraps while you’re working on it. And then eventually, once you’re close enough to the end, then you can share it, but I’m like, I don’t want to do that for six and a half years. 

Sheila M  1:00:30  

Yeah, that’s a long time to be doing that. 

Ash Alberg  1:00:34  

Yeah, knitting is a slow, slow beast. 

Sheila M  1:00:37  

I think I’m speaking to something that’s really beautiful about the tarot too, and that I’ve used for writing projects that are private right now, but maybe at some point become a little more public, but is that it really is like 78 prompts for creativity. 

Ash Alberg  1:00:55  


Sheila M  1:00:56  

 It’s so potent to you that way.

Ash Alberg  1:00:59  

Yeah, it’s so cool because there’s just so much potential. And I’m sure that if I were to revisit the exact same things in a year, I would come up with things totally different. But then I also last year and kind of, ya know, last year on my side project from field to skin, which is where I do fiber shed advocacy, most explicitly. I was doing a natural dye study of the natural dye plants in my region, which I live in a northern climate are our plants are not particularly well documented specifically for their uses in dyes. There are like some things that you can kind of glean over time. And depending on which sources you’re working from, and all of that, but like kind of the the mainstream natural dyeing resources that are available right now, do not talk about plants in our climate. And I was like, well, I want to play with my knowledge. color palette from my region. And I don’t necessarily want the plants that I’m using to have to be very good consistent lot like I just want to see what the colors are, I don’t care if they last five years at the exact same level of vibrancy, which I do I have to care about when I’m doing the commercial side of my business, but the personal side of my natural dyeing practice is much more interested in playing with local colors. And so I had started recording that and and I was doing this Saturday study where each week I would have you know, a mini skein that I had dyed and I would talk a little bit about the plant and I would do basically like an Materia Medica for each of these dye plants and then also include the information about them as a dye plant. And then I you know, I lost track of that and I’m a very good areas. I start a lot of projects and Follow through is not always my best strength. And, and so I was like, Well, I have these many schemes I want to continue doing this work. I also want to use these mini skeins somehow. And so I’ve started, I combined that project into swatching the Tarot, so each week and I was like, IGTV as a thing that I don’t really use, but I feel like it’s something I could use. And I want to do a little bit more video work, although to be totally honest, there’s very little it’s like, I take photos and then it’s like, the video portion is the fact that there’s like a voiceover to mostly photo images with captions underneath so that they’re more accessible. But each week this week, I’m taking a break because there’s way too much work so swatching, the tarot Episode 5? whatever episodes coming up next, we’ll be back next week. No fuckin clue where I’m at. But so I make a swatch inspired by I’ve decided I was like, I will just do the major arcana to start with. And it’s an excuse for me to learn more about my tarot deck and more about the cards and the ways to read the cards.

Because also, as a queerB that I’m like, I queer my readings. And I also really like like, I know a number of queer readers who choose not to read reversals, whereas I think, because I am queer reversals are actually really interesting. And so I used to, you know, read my reversals as well. And so I then make a swatch using a mini skein that has been dyed with a local dye plant. And so I each week, I got to talk about a little bit about the card and a little bit about the stitch that was inspired by the card and then also about the plant. That was used to do the dyeing those like ties my herbalism studies in and ties in my natural dyeing studies and ties in the the magic side and the divination side through the Tarot. And yeah, it’s been a lot of fun. And it’s been really interesting too, because, honestly, before this year, Major Arcana did not show up in my readings, and now they are consistently showing up in my readings. Like it’s very weird to me. And I think that’s a really cool part about Tarot is seeing like, what are the trends of what you’re pulling? Yes, lately, like with my wanderers deck, it’s, it’s different suits, but I’ve been pulling a lot of moons, and I’ve been pulling a lot of major arcana and it’s like, oh, okay, cool. And I remember when I was first really starting to work with my deck about four years ago, probably the three of feathers just kept on showing up over and over and over again. It was like What the fuck, which is the three of wands I’m pretty sure is what that correlation is. It just kept showing up. Like for months, it was in almost all of my readings, which was like, Alright, the universe is telling me a thing. And it’s just gonna keep telling me the same thing because it’s still relevant. And so yeah, lately it’s been interesting to be pulling, especially as the High Priestess has been showing up a lot for me, which is really interesting. And which I’ve actually got associated with, with a dear one, which is kind of funny. Yeah, but yeah, it’s I just, it’s been a lot of fun. It’s like extremely nerdy, but it’s fun for me because it’s like, you know, it’s nothing that is going to bring me money anytime soon, officially at least, but I get to pull all of my like nerdy interests together into a single thing. And between now and Christmas like that, well now in the end of the year, it should be done by the end of 2020.

For the major acrana at least And then I got  to move on to the suits. Yeah, it’s fun.

Sheila M  1:07:04  

I think that’s so cool and I love that you’re blending all of these different interests together when I I’ve done a couple of these like smaller workshops that are like Tarot embodiment workshop is is like what I call them and I’ve done a couple different cards, but that’s what it was born out of is wanting to combine like all of these things that I love, which is like talking nerdy stuff about the Tarot and, and yoga type movement and meditation and journaling. And it was kind of like, all of these things coming together where I was like, how can I combine everything in a way that people get to engage with it slightly different than they normally would? So I love that you’re doing that. I think it’s so cool. And every time you’ve put one up, I’ve been like this is so cool. I love because I just I love seeing people’s interpretations because they are so different. And because all of us are so different and have such different backgrounds, whether we’re Canadian or American or queer or straight or Cis or gay, like, whatever. Everybody brings a different understandin and they’re all so valid and so interesting. So I follow – like you were saying I follow all sorts of other readers and I think it’s so fascinating to see people write about different cards and and to break things down and I’m like, Yes. Like, that makes so much sense to me. Yeah. Yeah, it’s so cool. So I did want to talk – that kind of takes us to our next thing and about what cards I really see you embodying and I had a little bit of trouble at the beginning, but as we were talking, I literally had like six cards sitting out because I was like, I think it’s like somewhere in here. And I think it’s a combination. I think that’s why I was like struggling a little bit. Um, so first of all, I think it was funny that you were saying like the High Priestess because I actually I had pulled out the Queen of Wands, which I love because it’s, it’s Kind of a similar energy in in the way I read to the High Priestess. But there is something in there about your ability to kind of like, channel this creative, like inspired energy into something that is more physical. And I think that’s like what’s really interesting about a lot of what you do. But it’s also about like the authority to decide what that is for you and to do things that are different. So even like leaving Ravelry and stuff like that like to really be able to advocate for yourself in those projects, which I think is so cool. And then also, so I pulled two other ones – the 10 of Wands -Yeah, I can relate to all of these cards basically, like, Are we the same person? But 10 of Wands is kind of like you were saying about the amount of work that it takes you to really show up and be present in these ways and the amount of advocacy that you’ve had to do for yourself in terms of, Hey, I don’t want to be, I don’t like customer service, I don’t like front facing customer service. Like I really just I want to write about stuff, I want to record videos, and then I want to be done. And where you’ll take on a whole bunch of work to not have to do that. And, and also to be maybe just a teensy bit of a control freak. 

Ash Alberg  1:10:22  

Yep! 100%!

Sheila M  1:10:25  

Which I only know because I know you personally and like I said, very relatable on all of these. And then finally, Temperance, which I talked up and down about how this is the cards that I I-  consider this to be my most challenging card. It’s a lovely card, but like I’m just not a moderate person. And I was really thinking about this before we got on and I was like, I’m not really sure why exactly and then when you were talking about the anxiety piece and how much you have to participate in moderating your experience and tending to yourself and taking care. And that even though we might feel like we are not doing a good job, like you said, I’m not great at self-care. I’m not great at advocating and all these ways. I do think that in order to have the self awareness of exactly what’s going on and to not numb out and choose to avoid, is a huge, a huge embodiment of the temperance card because you’re having to participate in in your own healing and your own well being in a way that can be extremely confronting and challenging, but also, like this beautiful medicine that only you can provide.

Ash Alberg  1:11:37  

I love that so much.

Sheila M  1:11:42  

But I was like there’s a lot of fire in here and then I forgot until you started talking about it that that you were like a triple fire sign. There’s like, Oh, this makes more sense why I’ve got a bunch of ones guards sitting here now.

Like I said, I’m in the ones too. So I got it. I’m With you, but I really love that and I’m like now it’s all making the more we talk, the more it’s making sense why? why we’re friends. And I read your stuff. And I’m like, Yes, yes, absolutely. Hundred percent on board with this. So with all of that, I know that you have creative coven opening up very soon. So I would like to talk a little bit about how people can work with you. If there’s something in our conversation that sounds really interesting to them, or if they just want to buy your shit.

Ash Alberg  1:12:35  

Yeah, you got it. Yeah, so as long as COVID is happening without a reliable vaccine, I am not traveling to teach. Once it is safe to travel again, I love travel teaching. So if you own a store and you want me to come and visit you in like 2024 send me a message totally down and in Meantime, you can actually get I’ve because of COVID I have moved a lot of my teachings online. And again, I don’t like customer service. So there are no live aspects to any of my teachings. My Courses are self paced, pre recorded videos, work at them through your own thing. Pay me once or if there’s a payment plan, pay me through your payment plan and then you just work through your content. There’s no expiry date, do shit according to what you need in your life. And so you can find those at ash And then my side project if you’re interested, more so in the fiber side of things and textiles and and local economies and Sustainable Economies for that, that can be found at from field to skin calm. And then you can find me on the Instagrams at sunflower net and add from field to skin. I have been neglecting from field to skin for like half a year. Basically since dedikate and I feel really bad about it and I want to get back to it. But right now my energy is definitely limited. So you can absolutely find me at sunflower net. And eventually you will find me again at some field to skin so you can follow it and eventually when I start posting on there again, it’ll show up in your feed. And but yeah, and I have stock on my website basically all the time. There’s herbal remedies for makers and natural dyed goods and loads of patterns. If you’re a knitter and fun little ziens because I’m a nerd like that. And then yeah, each week for the most part, you can find swatching the Tarot and you can go to the igtv channel for it, which is on my feed, and binge watch all of the current episodes if, if you’d like to do that sort of thing. Think of it like Netflix – just for Taro.

Sheila M  1:14:54  

I love that. I love that. That’s, that’s so cool. And I think it’s, you know, true To the COVID-19 attention span to another short little episodes, you know, I can, you can sit down and go through it. So I love that and I will link everything up in the show notes. So if you if you’re looking for that you’ll be able to find links to all of Ashley’s work in the show notes. But thank you so much for being here today and for bearing with me through some tech issues.

Ash Alberg  1:15:23  

Thank you for having me.

Sheila M  1:15:24  

Yeah, this was such an easy conversation to have and so wonderful to have you. So I really appreciate it and all of you can find Ash’s work online.

Ash Alberg  1:15:36  

Thank you. Yeah.

Sheila M  1:15:40  

Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you loved today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me @Starsagespirit and let me know what you learned, what surprised and what you’d like to hear even more of, as always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episode show notes, you can head over to

The Wisdom of Small Action Steps & Embodying the King of Swords with Cate Mayer

cate mayer

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In episode 10 of Living Tarot, I interview Cate Mayer about her brand new initiative, Friends Vote Together. Born out of a conversation she had while phone banking for the upcoming election, Cate created Friends Vote Together to help people become not just more informed and engaged voters, but also informed and engaged citizens.In this episode, Cate and I spoke about how our friendship developed and how getting readings with me, keeping notes on them, and going back to them when ideas arise helped her find the confidence to take swift action on a brand new project. She created Friends Vote Together and had it up and running in just two weeks!! Friends Vote Together seeks to take the mystery out of voting and civic engagement. This intuitively created program helps increase civic engagement through pairing up with a buddy and suggesting weekly actions to take.

  • Cate and I discuss how small steps can make a big difference especially when it comes to civic engagement.
  • Cate also speaks about her experience of working with me through tarot and how our readings helped to give her direction and validation in career moves.
  • We talk about how the buddy system helps with accountability.
  • Cate speaks about how intuition let her to create this community action initiative and shows a great example of intuition in action.
  • We also talk about how imperfect, messy action can lead to momentum that creates long term progress and channel frustration into collaborative action.

Connect with Sheila:

Book a Tarot or Reiki session at or find her on Instagram

Work with Cate:

Find more info about Cate’s project, Friends Vote Together, at on Instagram.

Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium, and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure, and embodied the tarot along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing, empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the tarot.

 Today on the podcast, it is my great pleasure to welcome my friend Cate Mayer. Cate is the founder of Friends Vote Together a movement reshaping the approach and die lug around civic engagement and voting. The mission of Friends Vote Together is to increase voter turnout by making ongoing civic action, easy and engaging a community and conversation to become not only educated and informed voters, but educated and informed citizens. Over the last 15 years as a dedicated executive strategist, events leader, and campaign manager, Cate has led complex projects, events and organizational and business development strategies across diverse corporate and nonprofit landscapes. throughout her life, her desire has been to further the belief that if we continue to connect with people, and have meaningful conversations, we will continue to see the effects of change. Cate has traveled to 27 countries, lived on three continents and longs for the days when she can get back on the road to exploring and connecting with people all over the world. Based in Charleston, South Carolina, Cate loves cooking from her heart without a recipe, live music, reading intricate murder mysteries and is currently spending a lot of her time trying to keep her quarantine garden and half houseplant comp collection alive. So in today’s conversation, Cate and I really talk about what it looks like to lead from your heart. And to be a person who can kind of channel that king of swords kind of energy, where you can give direct action steps to people, and really lead the way towards greater civic engagement, and how you can break that down into very manageable and small pieces. So many people right now especially are feeling very paralyzed. They want to do something, they don’t know what steps to take to move forward. And that is really where our conversation begins today, and how Cate has kind of formed this incredible organization to really help direct people’s energy, especially with this upcoming election in the United States. So let’s dive right in.

All right, I’m so excited, Cate, I’m so excited that you’re here. today. I’m here with my friend, Cate Mayer. And Cate, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do in this world now.

Cate Mayer  3:26  

Hey, friend, how are ya? Thanks for having me on today. I’m so excited. Um, ironically, I was doing some research and looking back for something in my email on my calendar and a year ago exactly your this week, we met through one of our mutual friends. How crazy is that we’re here a year later to the day almost.

Sheila M  3:51  

I can’t believe it’s been a year. Like it blows my mind because I feel like 2020 in particular has been kind of a paradox of silence. Feeling like the longest and slowest year ever? And also like I blinked my eyes and suddenly it’s August.

Cate Mayer  4:08  

no, I agree. I agree. I saw it. And I was like, it has to have been two years ago, three years ago. But now it was exactly almost a year ago to the day September 14. So I love it. I mean, you and I say this all the time, trust the timing of your life. You know, and it’s almost I felt serendipitous that we’re having this conversation almost exactly a year later. I love it. I’m very excited. Yeah, I will also say, you know, I’m a little nervous. I know you’re gonna guide me through this, but I was totally anti podcast until before we went into quarantine. And you know, my what my commute to work used to be three minutes if I got the red light and two minutes if I didn’t, and I never had time to listen to a podcast in cars, which a lot of my friends would do on their commutes to work and I just, I had tried so many times over the course of years to get into them and to understand and and you know, Listen to all of these amazing stories and people that were putting this information out there. I just never got into it. And ironically, I was driving back from a work trip from Charlotte back to Charleston, South Carolina right before COVID, right for under lockdown. And a co worker of mine who’s like, all things podcast, basically forced me to listen to three hours of podcasts on the way back. And I didn’t want to tell him this at the time, but I was like, I really enjoy this. This is cool. This is like I was so into it. And so I never thought that I would be on a podcast. But now here we are, but I’ve gotten I’ve gotten into a bunch of podcasts over the last couple months. You know, walking through the neighborhood and just being at home and working at home now. And I am so excited to be on this moon but I’m more excited that you have launched those podcasts and are sharing your amazingness out to the world because the world needs more of you out there.

Sheila M  5:54  

You’re so sweet. I’m so excited to and funny. Like you said I think I was really resistant. To podcasts for a long time, but I’ve always loved storytelling and especially, you know, I love to read and I love reading blogs and books and all kinds of stuff. But I always felt like even writing my blog, like there was some part of my voice that was missing. And there’s something that comes with having these kind of unfiltered conversations that I think brings a deeper understanding and a deeper connection for people that is missing a little bit when when you’re talking about like writing and reading things. And so that’s part of the reason why I wanted to do this. And I think it’s funny, like you said, because I think I was a little bit resistant in the beginning as well.

Cate Mayer  6:43  

So I get it. I totally I could not agree with you more. And I also think, you know, the storytelling especially Have you listened to Trevor Noah’s book, podcast, if you haven’t, definitely. Yeah. So I had read the book a couple years ago, and I thought it was phenomenal. You know, I could feel his words and emotions through through his writing, but then listening it listening to it on the podcast and, um, audio was so different and you’re right, you get such a different emotive experience and you hear the story so differently. And I think it’s so important especially in this moment in time where we are, where we all are kind of, you know, reaching beyond our comfort zones and learning and trying to think differently and then narrative of how we talk and hearing that vocally is such an A important experience to keep learning but also really kind of pushes you to think and feel things differently than when you read them. You know, in a book or in a blog or Instagram or wherever it may be.

Sheila M  7:50  

And it’s our it’s our first experience you know, when when you’re a child people people read to you you know, they like sit down, they tell you stories, you know, for for generating stories were passed down just by word of mouth. So there is kind of that that storytelling piece but even just, you know, I think even reading aloud like one of the things, this is so corny, but one of the things that my partner and I have been doing during quarantine is having, like, storytime. So we have been reading a book and we’ll take turns reading a chapter out loud.

Cate Mayer  8:23  

Oh, that’s so fun. I love that.

Sheila M  8:25  

Yeah. And it’s been unlike I literally haven’thad somebody like, read to me since I was a child. Yeah, you know, and I’m like, why don’t we stop doing that? It’s great. 

Cate Mayer  8:36  

or reading with someone, right? Yeah. That’s a great idea. Yeah. Do not.

Sheila M  8:43  

Yeah, seriously, I’m like I’m doing like a best friend storytime or something. Totally. It’s

Cate Mayer  8:48  

actually funny. You said that I was talking to a friend of mine this morning and her two kids. The older the little boy every Sunday. He has family story out. And so a different family member from her and her husband family jump on on zoom on Sunday and they tell him a story in such a great and she’s like, I gotta run, we have family story our Oh, we were talking earlier, but it’s such a great idea. And I think brilliant, you know, as you know, we could go down a rabbit hole and probably do 10 years of podcasts of all of the negative that came out of COVID I think things like that are one of the beauties and joys that came out of this moment. Um, you know, all of us have these stories and have these things that we weren’t doing before that are connecting us with people and kind of bringing us back to the root of, you know, who we really are and what brings us joy and happiness, right and connecting with people. So yeah, absolutely. But I digress.

Sheila M  9:52  

So, so tell us a little bit more about what you’re up to now what you bring to the world. 

Cate Mayer  9:59  

Oh my godness, what am I up to? What am I not up to every day I come up with, with a new idea of something I want to do and capture and I it’s funny, it’s actually this goes exactly back to relating to and having conversations. I’ve gotten into this thing where I’m, you know, my girlfriends and I were on a group chat and it’s, you know, you couldn’t look away for an hour and you come back and it’s like 310 text messages back and forth having a conversation on Sundays, and I’ve gotten into this, this vibe of sending these video messages when I have things like, you know, some are not so brilliant, I’ll be honest about it. Some are very out there ideas of things and how we can you know, like I just say save the world. But, um, you know, we’ve been, I’ve been sending these via video and I it’s been so cool, because then my friends will send little videos back and forth. And it’s just another way to connect with each other. So I’m, again, total side tangent, but, um, what have I been up to? I have been capturing a moment An idea that I had just about 15 days ago to really, you know, the cut, let me kind of just tell you where where the concept came from, um, I left my position working for a company earlier this year and pre COVID was supposed to do some traveling comeback, had some things lined up to jump off into and of course, COVID hit and everything turned on a dime. So it was kind of in this moment of not sure what was next and kind of just listening to my intuition and listening to those around me in terms of fate trying to figure it all out. And I really dove into some volunteer opportunities around getting people registered to vote and really looking at the statistics of how many people were eligible and registered and didn’t turn out and vote in 2016 and then 2018 primaries, and furthermore, how many people are eligible to vote and not registered? It was eye opening, and just alarm And knowing that we’re in this moment that, you know, if we really want to see change, and if we really want to get back to a new normal and out of quarantine, and you know, really unpack everything that is going on in our world, you know, change needs to happen. And so I dove in headfirst and doing some volunteering with a bunch of organizations and phone banking texts, making a lot of writing, doing some research for them.

As it relates to voter turnout, and I just, you know, I had this kind of study, we’re going to talk about intuition, but this gut feeling in this like, pits in my stomach that there was something more that I wanted it needed to be doing, but I wasn’t really sure what it was and how that was going to come about. And so I remember very clearly it was national vote by mail day, and I was phone banking for North Carolina, and I called a woman named Beth in Raleigh, and I got her on the phone and I had asked her, you know, She was registered to vote. And was she looking forward to voting? And she said, Yeah, my friends and I, we don’t really vote. She hadn’t voted in a couple election cycles. We’re just going to sit this year out. And I said, Oh, Beth, no, we’re not sitting this year out. And we had a really good conversation about the importance of voting and what it meant and the history of voting, and by the end of the call, we got her online to register. And she had said to me, before we hung up, if I had a friend like you, I probably would have voted earlier in the past election cycles. And I remember hanging up from that call, and feeling you know, instantaneously that I wanted to go out into the world and find all the Beths and save all the best and get every Beth registered and get them to the polls. And you know, realistically knowing that that was not possible and that it was going to take a village to find all the Beths, but really kind of looking at that as the moment of I have to do more and I am being called to do more than just you Making these calls. And then the next day I was on having a conversation with one of my friends. And she had mentioned how, you know, she really wanted to get more involved, but she didn’t really know what to do. There were all of these call to action opportunities. And it was just it felt so overwhelming. And so really the coupling of those two conversations was the concept of the movement, the friends vote, friends vote together movement. And we launched a week ago this past Friday. And it’s been phenomenal. And really the concept of the movement is is twofold. One is to connect people in this time where we aren’t connected. We aren’t having conversations, we’re not talking to our friends and family as we would in a normal year and in a normal election year. And also a call to action that it is going to take all of us to do a little bit and a little bit more than what we’re doing day to day and every week in order for us to see the change that we need and we so desperately want And so the movement really acknowledges that everyone has a lot going on. We have parents that are trying to figure out how schooling is going to look how their work schedule, we’re going to look how do they go to the grocery store, without the kids, but no one to take care of the kids. Everyone is trying so hard to do their best. And there is so much work to be done coupled with misinformation and endless opportunities and calls to action being thrown at them. And so what we do is we’re an online driven campaign. That is basically the best way I like to describe it. As I think about it, the buddy system needs political action. And so by joining the campaign in the movement, you and a buddy agree to do one small action every week from now until the election that gets you civically engaged and educated and becoming a more educated and informed voter. And the caveat or the real piece that that we provide is that we give you five easy action items. Every week that you and your buddy can do. They range anywhere from this coming week to we’ve got take the census which is five minutes to signing up and doing postcard in which is a 30-45 minute activity we provide you with the amount of time each one takes we have done all of the activities, we’ve vetted them. So that we know that we’re not asking you to sign up to do something that is not going to have any impact or difference. And we provide you the resources, we give you the link, we make it easy and dummy proof for you to be able to participate. And the other thing is we really try to think about everyone and making this an inclusive community. So what is something that a mom can do or dad can do with their children? Last week, we had a really cool podcast that was on the 19th amendment. This week, we’re talking about postcards with kids. So having your children put on the stamps or have them write the addresses or decorate the postcards really making it more of a an all inclusive activity. And, yeah, it’s really fun. Um, the coolest thing in the last week too, is been, you know, we’ve had so many people reach out to us with additional opportunities that we didn’t even know were out there. And so we’re taking the time to vet them to make sure that they are legit and making sure that they’re easy. We don’t want to provide any very hard multiple step actions that are just going to confuse people. That’s kind of the opposite of what we’re trying to do. And we’re working with some partners now that we’re going to be releasing in the next couple of weeks. Some partnerships in terms of phone banking and text banking, that are mutually aligned in terms of work that they’re doing, and we’re doing to really, you know, think of this as a community. And I think, you know, one thing that I found in all my research and launching this is there are a lot of organizations and a lot of people out there that are competing to do the same thing and I use the word competing because they they’re competing against each other to get registered. To vote. And I think that is the exact opposite of what number one we need to be doing as a society right now we need to be working together. But also if, if we’re all out there to get people to register to vote, or we’re all out there to get voters to turn out or educate, inform voters, let’s do this together. I mean, we’re only as good as our as the person next to us working on this and let’s learn from each other and build upon each other. There’s no need for competition and recreating the wheel. And that’s, that’s really what we’re about and and creating this community of friendsat the end of the day. 

Sheila M  18:33  

I love that because you’re speaking to a couple different things here too, which I think, you know, between COVID and between a lot of the social justice unrest that has been going on throughout the country over the past couple of months. More people I think than ever before have really been fired up to get involved and frankly, with everything going on with COVID More people have maybe had time to as well. So I love that you’re trying to find these kind of bite sized ways for people to, to get involved. So yeah, I love kind of all the background that you gave on that. But can you I think for some people it’s hard to conceptualize, you know, they hear you talk about this, you sound like you know exactly what you’re talking about what you’re doing. What was the process, like kind of getting around to this, like, Where did you come from? before you started this? Yeah, I know,

Cate Mayer  19:36  

Great question. And and I think one thing that we you know, we, we say this and I and I’m very clear, I am not an expert. I have not been doing this work for many years. And part of what we are doing is elevating and amplifying the voices of those that have been doing the work for years and years and years and in everything that we provide online in terms have our content, our research our suggested talking points, we always include a section at the end with our sources and who we use or who we spoke with. I think it’s important for us to acknowledge that, you know, like I said, we’re all in this together. But we want you to know that we are not the experts by any means, and that we’re here to elevate and amplify the voices and the work of those that are doing much more than we are doing, and those that we use to inform the content that we share. And so that’s, you know, that’s something that’s really important to us is to not claim these sometimes very startling and sad statistics, but, you know, this is the work of a lot of people coming together to bring this to light. How did this come about? So quick question, a lot of sleepless nights. A lot of sleepless nights and Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups. That is the Exact Match making those happen.

Sheila M  21:02  

Like a spell you’re working your own version of a spell there.

Cate Mayer  21:06  

I saw news I have literally gone with four to five Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups and nothing else. Is there time. It’s so not right. But, um, so how this came about, it’s actually mind boggling on now that we’ve launched on the other side of it. From the moment I had that conversation with Beth, to the moment that we went live on Instagram was 11 days. And I I think about it now and, uh, yeah, I know, and it’s, it’s kind of crazy to think about, and we’re just one weekend now from launching, um, in terms of taking this, this live. I think, you know, one of the greatest things that and I’m not taking credit for this, but one of the greatest things that I did was in those 11 days, I gathered a group of 25 friends that I knew had experience from plunder. And creating documentaries to a good friend that runs a very public foundation to a friend that quit her job in 2008. left everything behind to go work for an office, she got an opportunity to work on Obama’s first campaign. And she basically just took the leap and did it and has just been my hero in terms of her political activism, and what she’s done between before 2008, but really since 2008, and kind of been my guiding light and getting advice from her and, you know, talking to all these people and pitching the idea, and the evolution of what we’ve launched is very much the same, but very different than the original concept. I had, at some point, the original, you know, my background comes from operations and building businesses, and thinking about how we can build and leverage and so you know, originally the concept was an activation where everyone signs up, they fill out a form, they get an automated email Then they get a badge and you put it online. And, you know, one of one of my friends I was talking to she, this was one of the best pieces of advice I got. She goes, you have to think of this as a crisis right now. And we have at this time 80 something days to get to the election. We don’t have time to build a business, we have to have boots on the ground and get this out, though, the longer you take to to launch this, the less impact we’re gonna have. And also people your whole concept of creating this is making this easy, people don’t have time to sign up for stuff right now. People don’t want another email in their inbox. People don’t want to do more than they can’t it’s not that they don’t want to they physically cannot do more than what they’re doing right now. Yeah. So it was just, you know, it was like from from day one, I think, you know, one of the concepts was not to make this to people had suggested making it kind of a newsletter that you get every week and this is your auctions and I was very against that because on a good day and granted I’m You know, probably probably subscribed to every possible mailing list that is out there right now. Um, you know, I get some days of hundreds of emails, and I just I can’t, it’s like, I cannot manage everything that comes into my inbox. And so I’m very fortunate and privileged not to have, you know, as much on my plate as some people do. And so the idea and concept to add one more thing for them to weed through and find and read was something I didn’t want to do. And I also wanted to make it easy, but an opportunity for them to do it on their time and their schedule when they could find it online and do what works for them.

Sheila M  24:37  

Yeah. So one of the What I really like about what you just said, If I can just pause you for a second.  And I really like that you’re talking about making this like quick and actionable. Because, like you said, one of the things that I think I’ve heard from a lot of people is how I want to do something and I don’t know what to do and instead of spending my energy A thing that would actually help, I just feel like I’m doing, I’m spending my energy trying to figure out what the right you know, quote unquote, right thing to do is. And I think that there is kind of this fallacy that exists out there, that when it comes to intuition or following something that’s intuitively guided, that it’s like perfect or something. And I think that this is the perfect example of doing something that is quick and dirty and necessary, and it doesn’t matter if it is perfect, so to speak. Yep, it matters that it is useful. And I think that’s really cool.

Cate Mayer  25:37  

That’s such a great point. And and something I really struggled with, I mean, we’ve known each other long enough know that, that you know, that I’m a perfectionist, and it’s like, you know, one I dotted incorrectly is like, I can’t sleep at night, but I think you made a really good point is that I I kind of accepted that. This was something and we can talk a little bit about how I got to this feeling but you know, this was something I knew I had to do and I had to create and I had to put out there. And I had to be vulnerable. And I had to kind of put my perfectionism hat on the back, you know, the back of the closet for now and say, Okay, this is urgent, this is needed, this is necessary, and it’s not going to be perfect. And there’s going to be a typo. There’s going to be a grammar error here in there. And you know, the content may be too much one day and too little another day or may not be explained well enough. The colors might not be 100% perfect, but I don’t have time. Yeah, no one has time to figure that out. Right now. We need to just kind of dive in and trust and hope and, you know, like you said, there’s there’s that battle of making things perfect and kind of just taking the leap and trusting and hoping and you know, I’ve said this over the course of the week is if we reach 200 people if we reach 20 people and 20 people are doing one small action every week. Now until the election, I feel like this was a massive success. I feel that if we’ve changed people’s mindset in terms of how to be active, whether it’s around an election, whether it’s around, volunteering in your community, whatever that is, how information is shared, that feels like we have made an impact, it’s not the number of likes that we’re getting on Instagram, it’s, you know, it’s not, oh my gosh, this person follows me now or this person. Yeah, those things would be great. And that will obviously help our growth and our numbers, but it’s about changing lives. And it’s about getting people educated. I think last week, um, I was on one of our another account on Instagram, and they posted a picture. And their subject was, you know, it was around the DNC, and it was, you know, I can’t remember what it was, but the call to action was so what are you guys doing this week, basically, asking their followers what their options were this week and I was reading through the subject of captions from people This one woman had written I want to get to work, but I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. And it was just like a light bulb. I messaged her immediately I said, Come over our site, you know, this is what we do. We provide you these actions. You know, these are ideas, we want you to get creative. We want you to do what works for you. If you have 10 hours a week, and you want to follow me for 10 hours, go for it, if you’re into a campaign and into a candidate, and you want to put all your time and effort behind that, we support you, but we want to at least provide you that framework to get to get started. And she came over and joined us and sent me a message at the end of this week. And she said, You know, this is exactly what I’ve been looking for. Because I feel so lost. There’s so much out there and I know it’s all worthy, but I don’t I don’t even know where to start, like this such a great launching point for me to be civically active and engaged and, and not for me, I was like, Okay, that’s it. I’m not going to be done. I’ve got you know, we got two and a half months to go but I was like, okay, I’ve done my work, you know, like that is exactly what the purpose of this is.

Sheila M  29:01  

Hey there, I want you to be the first to know that I am offering a free training Tarot l for Real Life – Get Your Shit Together with the Tarot on Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 12pm eastern time, this workshop is extremely powerful. It talks about the top mistakes that new Tarot readers make, will cover the neuroscience of Tarot and how it can stop the anxiety cycle, and the exact steps to follow to start reading effectively and efficiently for yourself. This is where the spirituality of the Tarot meets real life situations. And my goal is to have you leave that workshop, either with a reboot to your tarot reading or if you’re a brand new beginner with a good idea of how to get started. So you can sign up for that free workshop in the show notes today or if you already know that you are really interested in signing up for a tarot course. I will be opening the doors for my Tarot course for the last time for 2020 of course. It’s called Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. It is a seven week Tarot course that takes you from brand new beginner to tarot reading Pro, and helps you learn how to bring that practice into real life, how to use the Tarot to help you make complex decisions effortlessly. So if that sounds good to you, you can sign up for the waitlist in the show notes today.

You’re speaking to something that I think is really important as well which sometimes because we’re so used to like the Instagram way which is like I’m an influencer again like the perfectionism comes in now with that 

Cate Mayer  30:49  

I hate that word, but yeah, I was like, I literally spent nights googling, like, what can I say instead of influencer and I haven’t come up But anything

Sheila M  31:01  

I’m the same way I have like a whole group of words that I hate, but it’s, it’s really funny to me because I think that, you know, one of the things that I learned, like from early on with my business because I was very brick and mortar at the beginning, you know, I was seeing a lot of people. Yeah. And I was like, I was looking at all these people who are, you know, considered successful, you know, and they have, you know, thousands of followers or hundreds of thousands of followers and I was listening to a podcast, of course, um, and I can’t remember exactly who it was. But basically, she was talking about having the same revelation that she didn’t need 1000 customers she needed like 100 customers, and that like she was getting so distracted by all these metrics that didn’t really matter. And like you’re saying, I think it’s very important because I also think that with what you’re doing, it’s not necessarily going to be this big, huge Social media explosion, you know, I think it’s going to be one of those things get shared and the people were like, holy shit, this is really helpful. Like, no, I, I just I didn’t know which actions to take. Um, so I love that you’re speaking to that a little bit. So yeah, I think the

Cate Mayer  32:18  

other thing I just want to mention too, that also is, you know, I’m like I said, I, I was very much I’m in the first couple days of building this and in how do I check analytics and how do I see you know, who’s sharing what and how do I do this and how do I, I you know, I had all these stats that I wanted the age demographic, where people what these people were coming from, you know, how did how did they find us all this kind of, I had this whole metric vision right and, and scrapped it all, ah, very good advice of some friends of just like, get this out there. You know, build the momentum, build the movement, get people to trust you and on board and then you can build the metrics. problem there. And I did put in an analytics system this week. You know, it’s not perfect. I’m learning all this as I go, I have no idea what half of what I’m tracking is, but that’s all right. The numbers are going off. That’s all that matters. I’m like, you know, what’s the trending upward? That’s all. That’s all that I need to know. But one thing that was really interesting, and I think this goes to the second point of this, this movement, and I feel is almost as equally if not more important, is building this community, right? And building this sense of togetherness, and how how we really it’s really a grassroots movement. You know, I found several friends that I asked to be founding friends and said, Okay, I need you guys. Are you on board? Or do you want to be part of this? Give me your advice. What do you think they invited their friends to be part of the buddy system, who then invited their friends and one thing that I noticed this week in terms of our followers, and again, for me, it’s not the number of followers it’s, it’s, it’s quality versus quantity, right? Like we could have 2000 followers and they’re all you know, Fake, you know, whatever they are, I don’t know what the actual term is that they call them fake people. Yeah, there’s, there’s a term for that asked me two weeks, I’ll probably know they’re not today, you know, but I looked at the analytics and of our followers, we are at 47%. This was as of two days ago, of people that are following us that didn’t have a tie to someone else, meaning someone found us on Instagram. And they’re not a friend of yours. They’re not a friend of another person that’s following us. And that’s huge. 47% that means almost half of our following, found us organically through another account, through our hashtags through googling friends, whatever it may be, and that was really eye opening to me in terms of this not just being a grassroots movement that’s, you know, kind of circling amongst our group of friends that goes to another group, which is happening at the same time. It’s kind of this symbiotic thing that’s happening and so that was really cool because recruiting reading this community of people who are obviously looking for a sense of community and and help great and that’s, that’s awesome, that’s awesome for me to go to bed at night, those nights I do go to bed because there’s not many these days feeling like that I’ve created that, um, which is cool. 

Sheila M  35:19  

I love that so much. Um, so I think for you know, for people who maybe struggle a little bit when when these ideas come in for them, and don’t really know how to trust that, have you Have you always been a person that could trust your intuition, kind of what is your background been with with trusting that kind of intervals?

Cate Mayer  35:42  

Yeah, you know, it’s funny. I was thinking about this word intuition and kind of my, my journey with it right and i i have very, very vivid moments in my past that I absolutely listened and followed my intuition. But I don’t think that I knew that’s what I was doing at the time. I remember visiting Dickinson college where I went for undergrad on Pennsylvania, amazing college, by the way, anyone out there that’s, that’s looking. And I remember walking on campus with my mom and I turned to her and I said, I’m going to college here. She was like, well, we should probably apply and see if you get in first. I was like, No, I’m going there. I’m going and she was like, Okay. And then when I moved to New York, right after college, and a common theme of my life, which you know, is I just kind of do things and take the leap of hope. But I moved to New York after college without a job without a place to live and just knew I was gonna figure it out. Which sounds crazy, but it happened. And I walked into this apartment complex that I was looking to live and I was waiting in the lobby, and this friend of mine, who was a broker who’s helping me find apartments, I turned to him and I said, Ari, I’m going to live here. Let’s just to sign a lease looks like you haven’t even seen the apartment and I was like, No, no, I’m gonna live in this building. And he was like it. He was he was baffled. He had no idea what to say. And I look back at those moments, and, you know, they were huge life decisions where you go to college where you live, and there was a couple others. And and now, you know, in retrospect I look at it and that’s absolutely, you know, kind of following my intuition and following my gut in terms of what felt right and what was what I was meant to be. You know, and I’m totally a research nerd, in fact, over fiction and so of course, like, you know, I looked up the word intuition and, and that’s really what intuition is, right? It’s this process where, you know, our brain uses past experiences in our lives and things that we’ve been through and looks at them as cues in terms of like, you know, from ourselves in our environment to make decisions, which is for me, so fascinating because I look at life now. And I think, you know, as I’ve grown I definitely always had that feeling of listening to my intuition, but I think I’ve I really, you know, just using those two examples, I’ve obviously had past experiences in my life that that I’ve leaned on in terms of having listened to my intuition. I think something that shifted is when I was younger, and it could be just an age thing or being naive is that, you know, I don’t really think I knew what, what that meant back then. And as I’ve grown up, I think, I mean, I think some people their intuition is very quiet, right? And they have a really hard time hearing it and kind of tapping in and tuning in. I’m the exact opposite. Mine is loud as day it is a frickin earthquake like it is there. I hear it, but I don’t necessarily I push it away. I suppress it right. And I think what I’ve worked on over the last couple years and you and I have had a lot of conversations and work through is really listening to it and tuning into it and not? Not, you know, not asking the real questions of like, well, but what if this but what about and really just kind of tapping into that and saying, okay, it hasn’t led me astray. Most times, there are a few times it has, um, what happens if I tap into it? Like, what would it look like if I did this? Or I did that? How would I feel? And really kind of suppressing the doubt and the question and the reality, the reality of what comes around sometimes with listening to your intuition, leaving my job in the middle of a recession, and COVID is, is a great, one of my best friends, our mutual friend called me and I love her to death. She was like, What are you doing? And I was like, I’m listening to my intuition. And, of course, she understood what I was saying, but I you know, it was one of those moments where most people, you know, sure, it’s taking a risk. It’s not normal. Safe decision, I feel very fortunate and very privileged and very, very, very lucky to be in the opportunity and the space to be able to have done that. And I recognize that that’s also driven me a lot to why I feel this need and want more want the need to give my time back to other people right now because I know that I’m very lucky to have that opportunity. Yeah. And I think you know, you and I together, have worked Now, obviously, a year ago. We just hit our should we send each other an anniversary gift. What is one year?

Sheila M  40:32  

One year? I think it’s the paper anniversary. Perfect. 

Cate Mayer  40:38  

Let’s support the US post office. I’ll send you a letter.

Sheila M  40:43  


Cate Mayer  40:44  

I have some love stamps on here. But I think one thing that’s been so great and working together and really kind of on this journey together is not asking the traditional questions. I think that many people are used to asking or themselves or their friends when it comes to following your intuition and I think that’s, that’s probably what’s led me astray in the past and has prevented me from from listening to this shouting voice in my gut. But really asking positive reinforcing questions like what would it look like if this what would it look like if that and and really thinking through it and realizing that it’s not so scary and it kind of looks good if I jump and do this right and i think you have such an ability to frame it in a way that is supportive, that triggers and a really good way people to to ask questions of themselves that really you make me do the work and i and i mean that with love, like you’ve made me do a lot of like really interesting work and thinking through things in the way that you’ve asked them and in a way that you’re positioned them that I haven’t gotten from other people.

Sheila M  41:59  

I love that you’re Saying that too, because one of the things that I really strive to do, because I think there’s this traditional idea of Tarot as fortune telling, which Yes, I mean, sure, there are people who use it exclusively as fortune telling, but what I’ve learned from being a person who generally knows the right answer, like is that when you just tell people the answer, it robs them of the the ability to truly know it, first of all, so like, they don’t, it doesn’t feel true. And you know, it. They don’t, their brain can’t make it as real as what they’ve experienced because they haven’t had the experience of realizing it’s true. You know, they have the experience of someone telling them that it’s true. And so, what I experienced so much in Sessions is people who come in with that idea, Sheila, tell me, the answer helped me figure out what to do Tell me what to do. Um, but really what I found is way more helpful is to ask questions and to look at different options because sometimes we’re so attached to a certain outcome that we are missing the reasons why it might not be the right outcome. And like, I’m just going to use relationship stuff because it’s easy to talk about that. But it’s true with career stuff, like, like we have seen working together, as well. But with relationships, you know, you can think that someone is, you know, you’re just like in that stage where you’re just so in love and like, you can’t imagine anything being wrong. But when we, when we look at the reading, we see that there’s some like in compatibility with the way that you communicate or the way that energy is exchanged between the two of you. And right now, it’s not a big deal, but when you multiply that by a lifetime It’s a really fucking big deal. So I think what’s really important is to, to have these these conversations with clients who come in about all of the possibilities that are open. And one of the things that I loved about working with you is that first of all, you are very multi talented, and but you were kind of like, open, you know, and I think you knew it was time to do something different, but it was really hard for you to figure out what the next step was, and, and I can relate, you know, to toot our horn, we’re multi talented and multi passionate people and so, 

Cate Mayer  44:43  

But you also came from the same background, you were in this corporate job and you took the leap as well and you were just kind of like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna do this, you know.

Sheila M  44:52  

Exactly. And, and, you know, I think it can be really difficult when you don’t have that straight line. Fast forward like you do when you’re inside of a corporate organization. And because that’s what we all grow up with, you know, we all go up through school and you follow the grades and then you graduate from school and you either get a job or you go to college, and then maybe for the career you want, you get a master’s degree, or whatever it is, there’s kind of like, this whole prescribed path. And then even beyond that, there’s then you get married, and then you have kids, and like, yeah, there’s no real room for variance and  one of the things that I really loved about working with you was that you came in and you were like, hey, there’s like 20 different things that I’m interested in. And I don’t know where to focus my energy and like, Can we just kind of like, look at everything, you know, and, and I think that, like you said, sometimes intuition isn’t just like giving you the path forward. It’s giving you like a no to where you are and then it’s Your job to do the work in like excavating and creating to try to figure out what that looks like.

Cate Mayer  46:07  

Totally agree totally agree. It’s interesting I was I, you know, I keep notes of all of our conversations and like our all the work that I’ve done, but you’ve kind of the homework, if you will, that you’ve offered my opinion, I think something that you said multiple times in our conversations and really I think is important for people to know it shifted my mindset and I hope that it will shift others is you kept saying to me imagine someone else telling you this story. So whether it was that wonderful relationship that we worked through together, and whether is it too early in the day to open the wine anyway, maybe tequila at this point.

There was that, um, you know, whether it was my career shift, it was some you know, friends and stuff that I was working through relationships up. You said, Imagine someone else talking You the story and that was it was so eye opening for me. Um, as cliche as that phrase is, isn’t that, you know, I think we our own our own worst enemies and our own we make ourselves a victim right? Like, what if this was someone else’s story what would your reaction be right? What if someone else was telling you that they were going to leave their job to go figure out what was next or they were going to follow their intuition in creating something that they knew was going to help people but they didn’t know exactly what that was, you know, what, what would your reaction to that be? And I think we tell ourselves those stories, more, you know, kind of protecting ourselves in a way where we’re, we’re negative to each other, you know, or to ourselves, I should say, you know, we have this negative while at 30. I should be married and so I can’t leave my job because I have to get married and then by 35, it’s like, No fucking way. Like, put all of that aside. Like, that’s just a whole again, a whole nother year of podcasts. down. But I think you know, that is something that really kind of helped me on this journey and I hope others will take away from it is imagine someone else telling the story. What would your what would your reaction be? What would your what would your narrative be with them and make that narrative with yourself? You know, and on it, whether it’s good or bad have that narrative with yourself as you would it with someone else’s story?

Sheila M  48:25  

Yeah. And it removes so much of the judgment too, I think because we can be so judgmental towards our own experience. And, and even like I say, all the time, if, if all the stuff that happens to me wasn’t happening to me, I wouldn’t believe it. Like if it wasn’t happening to me regularly. Even in the beginning, I think, in my experience, you know, I had these experiences and and I always had this stuff that I understood, but I as a kid, I didn’t have the context to really know what was going on? Or that it was different than anybody else’s experience. But like, no, the older you get and the more you have the language and the understanding and the questions to ask other people, the more sense it all starts to make, and the more you can kind of untangle what you personally think and how you personally feel, rather than the expectations that have been placed on you, by family, by yourself by the social economy. Yeah, that you grow up in. And I do think it’s really interesting and kind of reclaiming personal agency to actually start to to learn what that looks like and feels like in your body and you bring up such an interesting point about how sometimes it, it can take you to something that is quote unquote, that will say bad or less You know, feels like not the right decision. But also I’ve learned a lot about myself in that. I won’t believe something until it goes wrong. So for example, like, I could, especially when it comes to, like, you know, something I really want so like if it was a job and like, my intuition was like, This isn’t the right job. This isn’t the right job. I probably wouldn’t listen to it even though I know that that’s true. And, or I might get the impulse like, yeah, try this and still know that it’s going to be like kind of a mess. I totally, I mean, I think that anyway, so it’s part of the experience. 

Cate Mayer  50:40  

I think that’s you makes such a good point is that, you know, listening to it and and trusting it is just the first step, right? Really leaning into an acting, acting, acting on it is where the shift and the change takes place. And acknowledging that it’s not going to be perfect, you’re going to mess up you may I’ve made the wrong decision, you may need to backtrack, you may need to apologize to people for what you’ve done in terms of, you know, saying that to yourself and others that you made a mistake, but you’re gonna, you know, you’ve learned from it. I think that’s, that’s where the shift and the change takes place just following it and doing it is just the first step.

Sheila M  51:19  

Yeah, yeah, I love that so much. Um, so I did want to talk a little bit about what I really see you embody lately especially, um, and I know for people it shifts all the time, but with this work that you’re doing now I see like a couple different cards with it, which I think is pretty cool because a lot of people are not just like one you know, but I definitely see the king of swords in this work that you’re doing because you’re very much in this kind of, like you said, it’s kind of like a leadership position. You’re kind of amplifying these voices of other people. And like drawing them up to the surface. But ultimately what you’re doing is you’re kind of leading the way with this new idea and, and a new way to engage people in in like an idea that already exists. So it’s, it’s really kind of showing people the steps and when we talk about like the kings in the Tarot especially, are very much about like being the leader like the one that’s kind of out in front. And while it’s not directly you you’re not like Cate Mayer being like, Hey, here’s my personal account and I’m sharing stuff what you are doing also, but you’re creating a forum for people to find their next step and, and to very, be very deliberate about which next steps they’re taking and how they’re using their energy. And part of the king of swords to is really being able to wield knowledge and and intellect and these inspired ideas into something that is very like direct and And constructive and can really help, you know, drive that idea across the finish line. So I think that’s really cool.

Cate Mayer  53:10  

Something I just want to say. I mean, interrupt you, but go ahead. Yeah, that’s what friends do. Right. I think you said something that was just like, totally struck me. Ah, you said creating a forum for their next step. And I think that really hit me because a lot of what we talked about these last couple months was, you know, taking this time to think about what I wanted, right? And what what was it that I needed, you know, I’d always worked in corporations and companies where I was, you know, I was part of the forum but I wasn’t actually creating the forum, right. Like I didn’t, I didn’t come Ah, I didn’t come and say okay, like this is this is the brainchild idea of this not saying my ideas for each idea, but still, and I think the ability for me now to be in this position where I’m creating this forum, and creating the opportunity, it came from following my intuition. And it came from taking a leap and being like, Alright, I think this is gonna work. I don’t know, we’ll see. Um, and it wasn’t forced, you know, I think there’s, and this is no particular situation, but I think a lot of people are in these in these places were there in these positions with like a force of timing, right. And we talked a little bit about that earlier. But this, this kind of took time to get here. I mean, I left my job in May, and we’re in August, and it took a lot of doing different things from May to August to get me to create and follow my intuition of like, Okay, this is the next step for me, you know, and this is where I want to be and what I want to do and I think that’s a huge part of a following and being on this journey.

Sheila M  54:48  

Yeah. And, and I think the other thing about the kings and one of the things because sometimes when it comes to like leadership, people are like, why are you the leader, you know, but I think Not a lot of people want to lead because not a lot of people want to be out in front. Because especially now I think there’s a lot of criticism. There’s a lot of people that are afraid of doing things, quote, unquote, the wrong way, or like making mistakes. And one of the things that I’ve really admired about you is that you don’t have that same fear of making mistakes, like you’re, you know, that you’re going to do it and perfectly, we’re both white women, I should say. And we know that we are going to lead them perfectly because we have led lives of privilege. But you, you aren’t letting that stop, you or slow you down and you’re kind of paving the way for other people to follow you and learn from your mistakes and integrate the wisdom that you’re learning kind of out in front which I think is is really important.

Cate Mayer  55:55  

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Sheila M  55:56  

Yeah. Um, and I do I because I One of the things that that I always say about the Kings is it’s not for everyone because like, you have to have a certain level of vulnerability to step out like that. I think when pulled away to Kings, they think like this is the person in charge. But whenever you’re in charge, it does open you up to like this huge amount of vulnerability. And it’s not about being fearless. It’s about being brave, and like showing up with courage in the face of things that are scary. And so I love that. And also along with that, I also see the 10 of wands, which is very much of whenever I see this card, it always like makes me think of you because it’s very much about kind of like carrying all these different passions and feeling such a sense of responsibility to kind of make them all happen. And I think just from a lot of the conversations that we’ve had, and working together in Tarot sessions, and everything It’s always about been about you trying to do the most with what you’ve been given and, and trying to like, elevate things to the next level. And when it comes to the 10 of wands, and a lot of it, I think you try to muscle yourself it sounds like now with this project, you’ve really kind of sought out some help and some people that can can help you to kind of elevate to the next level and are not single handedly doing it yourself. But on the other hand, the end of the spectrum, there’s you launching a giant project in two weeks. 

Cate Mayer  57:37  

amd waking up at two AMwith this next idea that I you know, it’s it’s amazing how like, the ideas, you sit at the desk, right? And you’re like, Okay, I got I am like, still in my routine. I wake up in the morning or how I go for my morning walk, I come back, I have breakfast, sit down and I’m like, Okay, I know what I need to do. And I get it done. But it’s like these waves of like ideas and partnerships and Like things and I’m like, I know we can do this if we put our mics when they come between like two and four in the morning and then I’m up because it’s like, Okay, I’m like, Why is no one else up I want to talk about this, you know, and pitch this like, you know, but 

Sheila M  58:12  

All my friends will talk about it. I’m like, I’ve got a friend or two who’s gotten like a 4am tax like I’m, I’m up late, I’m up early, I think especially when you are really connected. There is that idea of I’ve got a lot to do. And I’ve got all this, all these ideas coming in. And I also think that’s where that that 10 of wandss comes in to is kind of this inspired, intuitive ideas and these passion projects that kind of come through and it is not always convenient. But it is often at a very inconvenient time. I like sit around. There’s so many names about it and stuff too, but like, I’ll sit around and be like, okay, like I got this idea that I’m trying to kind of drawing and I I’ve seen it kind of peripherally but I can’t quite narrow it on it and I’ll give myself time to meditate and sit and do a little yoga and whatever, nothing. And then I’m like, out like picking up groceries or something. It’ll be like, right in the front of my brain. And I’m like, why does this happen? 

Cate Mayer  59:14  

Totally. That happened to me yesterday I like literally, you know, I was creating the content for this week. And I just was like, a total roadblock yesterday. And And finally, I was like, Alright, I give up, like, I’m gonna just let it go for today. I can’t, I can’t tap in and I was driving to my parents last night for dinner. And I’m literally halfway there. And it was like, I had to pull over on the side of the road. And because if I don’t write it down, I’m gonna forget that in an hour. That’s where my brains out at this point. And it’s been that way forever, but that’s alright. And I literally wrote and I’m like, tapping away, like writing this idea down and now it’s coming to word make it happen this week. But it’s like, yeah, it comes in those moments where you’re like, really, this is the most inconvenient time and like, I’m driving right now. I can’t Do this but

Sheila M  1:00:01  

yeah, yeah, so I love I love that so much. Um, so I do want to offer everybody the opportunity to work with you and see what you’re up to and to get involved with your project. So where where can people find you? How can they work with you? What’s the best way to get in touch with you? 

Cate Mayer  1:00:26  

Absolutely. So we are a completely online driven campaign. And our main source of driver is through Instagram. We are obviously an inclusive community that we would love we have some actually do have some folks that are part of the community and movement that are in college and we have some older folks on board as well. But really, you know, kind of the, the, the demographic when I had in mind was kind of the mid 20s, early, mid 40 group, kind of Instagram user I will be 100% candid I am not on Tick Tock I am not learning Tik tok, I don’t know even how to tik tok, I don’t even know if that’s how you say it. So I’m gonna leave that to the kids. But we are on Instagram, its friends vote together is our Instagram account. We also have a website, friends that has all the content, directly feeding to it from our Instagram account. So if you do not have Instagram, it’s all on our website. One thing that we have built out on the website as well, which is cool. And I think this is something that I was really cognizant of is I did some research, I guess it was two weeks ago. Now. You know, there’s a lot and this is goes to my point of elevating and working together versus competition. So I did this research and there’s 427 websites that you can go to register to vote 427. So, not all of those are like or an actual, you know, government website. A lot of them are sharing content and sharing accounts of other voter registration sites. But that’s way too many. I mean, that’s why people are feeling so overwhelmed and confused and not knowing where to go and is it this website or that website. So one thing that we’re really, you know, cognizant of is elevating and find the voices of those that we have research drills that we have used ourselves. And so we’ve created what we’re calling a voting hub on our website, and it’s on one page on the website where you can go check your registration, you can register to vote, you can request your mail and ballot you can find your polling place know if you need a voter ID. If you’re overseas or military where to go to check the registration. If you have a criminal record, you can go to a certain website to figure out what your rights are in terms of voting in your state, and it’s basically it says check registration, you click on the box and it takes you to the website, um, to the direct website that we link to that we we are using. It’s not the only website but One that we are using, and I think that kind of helps and narrows things down for people. So our website, as I said, has a ton of information for you guys to use. And then in the next week or so, we will be on Twitter and Facebook as well. That friends vote together. And always our contact information is on Instagram and it’s on our website as well. We’d love to hear from people if anyone wants to work together and partnering. Anything questions? feedback, you’re not doing this great. I hate your colors. change your font. I’m not changing my colors and font but I love I love our lock but I was very, very cognizant of how we created our lock in our colors but um, but yeah, I mean I’m I would love to hear from people and get people to join. I you know, as I said, we’re an inclusive community and that we really want to bring people together and we want to help educate and inform. Not just to be educated, informed voters, but educate And warm citizens because we need to be honest that in reality, we probably will not know the outcome of the election on November 3. But in the event that we did, the work doesn’t stop on November 4, right, this is just the beginning of a decade’s work ahead of us in terms of doing the work and being civically active and engaged and, and we’ll see what comes November, we have some things that are in the works in terms of how this is going to evolve post November. So we’ll see how that that all plays out.

Sheila M  1:04:32  

Yeah, I’m so excited for this. So I’ll have everything linked up in the show notes. If you want to get in touch with Cate and your Friends Vote Together and your Instagram handle and your website and everything so that everybody can find you. But thank you so much for being here today. I’m happy we got to have this conversation. 

Cate Mayer  1:04:53  

And the last thing I want to I’m not I’m not going to take the last word but I do say you know i I think there is a lot of it’s kind of goes back to our comment of the cultural norms, right in terms of doing the work and how do we do the work and not raising your hand and saying I need help and kind of trying to talk with yourself. And I will be the first person to say at 38, you can’t do it all. And it is a sign of bravery. It is a sign of strength and is a sign of healthiness to reach out and ask for help and have conversations with friends and family. And people like Sheila, um, there is no doubt in my mind that I would be sitting here having this conversation with you, having launched this movement, hopefully making some kind of change in the world if we had not met a year ago, and I had been open to the conversation, but really had you there to support me and to have those conversations and make me feel like we were in this together. And so I think you know, the hardest part is raising your hand and saying, I need some help. I want to have a conversation and I encourage anyone One that’s listening to take that first step. And if you’re scared, obviously reach out to Sheila, but you can reach out to me personally, I’m happy to get you there just  to talk to Sheila. Um, and I’ve had a lot of these conversations with friends over the years of doing that. And again, I’m no expert, but I’m happy to have that conversation and, and really push yourself to, you know, understand that everyone’s journey on intuition is different, that is not going to be loud, like mine is it is going to be soft and quiet. And some people may be loud and others and no one’s journey or timing is the same. You cannot force the timing of following your intuition and figuring out on your own when it’s going to happen or when it’s, you know, it’s the right time. And so, I think, you know, be open to it, be willing to do the work, find and surround yourself with people like sheilo and good friends that guide you and help you and and have those conversations with you. And really take the leap, it is a greatest thing you can do it is a form of self care is a form of self healing and is a form of, of self love. And I think I think everyone would would be in a much better place if we could all raise our hands a little bit more and say I need help. And that that is a sign of bravery. And that is a sign of strength and not weakness. So yeah, I just want to say like, I cannot recommend working with you enough.

Sheila M  1:07:29  

Thank you, thank you, you’re like gonna make me cry. But I love that you said that too. Because I do think that’s the thing that comes up a lot for people. And, and there’s such a responsibility that’s placed on us. And I did actually forgot to ask you my question about what advice you would offer to people so it worked out.

Cate Mayer  1:07:48  

See my y intuition told me that my intuition told me I should just jump in there.

Sheila M  1:07:55  

Listen all the time. Exactly. So again, thank you. So much for being here, Cate, I’m so happy. I got to have you a conversation with a friend and somebody who is also very intuitive. So I will see you next week.

Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you loved today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me at @Starsagespirit and let me know what you learned, what surprised you, and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episodes show notes you can head over to

When to Get a Professional Tarot Reading

when to get a professional tarot reading

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In episode 9, I dive deep on four reasons why you might want to get a professional tarot reading. You will probably recognize yourself in some of these reasons and what I really wanted to do was normalize outsourcing when you’re feeling overwhelmed or too emotionally attached to an outcome.

  • I go deep into symptoms of needing an outside opinion on tarot readings.
  • I speak to you how stress and overwhelm can cloud your ability to get a clear tarot reading on your own.
  • I also talk about how to give yourself permission to spend your money and energy on self-care even if it’s something that you could, in theory, do for yourself.

Connect with Sheila:

Book a Tarot or Reiki session at or find her on Instagram

This episode really stressed the importance of knowing when is the right time to get a professional tarot reading. I also discuss issues of self-worth and the challenge that can come up around investing in yourself on something that might seem unnecessary or that you can do yourself. What’s really important to remember is that when we have too much buy-in to the outcome of a reading or too much emotion tied up in it it’s very difficult for even the best readers to find clarity. Outsourcing your tarot reading to a professional shows tremendous wisdom and courage and it can save you a lot of angst. And I also talk about the importance of doing your research before choosing a reader and making sure that you understand the service that you are purchasing so that you aren’t disappointed and you can get the maximum clarity through that tarot reading.

Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium, and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure, and embodied the Tarot along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing, empower yourself through intuition, and live intentionally with the Tarot. 

Welcome back to Living Tarot. On today’s episode, I’m going to talk about a question that I get asked a lot which is when should I get a professional reading and when can I just do the reading for myself. And this is something I hear a lot. It’s also something that I think there is a little bit of shame about in the community. I think when it comes to specialty readings, or your ahead readings, or anything that’s kind of like fun and exciting, it’s very acceptable to go and participate in something fun. But if you’re struggling, it can sometimes be seen or internalized as weakness, or like you’re not a good enough reader. And so I really wanted to address that today, I wanted to talk about four different scenarios where you might find yourself feeling called to get a reading from somebody else. And also kind of take apart some of the shame that surrounds that. So let’s get started. So it’s simple I personally have experienced as a reader, it’s something I’ve heard reader friends talk about quite a bit. And I do think that there is some inherent shame as in not being able to do it yourself. If you’re a professional reader, especially, I think there is a lot of shame that surrounds that. And there’s a couple of things about this, that that bother me. So the first thing is that there’s really nothing wrong with reaching out when it’s something that you feel you can’t get clarity on. And in fact, I would say that it is more, more harmful and more frustrating to keep spinning your gears and to not accept that you kind of need somebody else’s help in the situation. Rather than just trying to force your way through or pretend it’s not happening. In my in my mind, it is a sign of an ethical And a grounded reader when you can accept that I’m not getting a clear read on the situation and I really need to outsource to to someone else. Or maybe I’m too emotional or whatever it is. So I really do encourage you. If you are a reader and you are feeling pressured to not seek out help from someone else, I really do encourage you to ask yourself, why that might be and what’s coming up for you that you feel that you need to be able to do everything yourself. The other thing is that not every reader has the same understanding or the same sweet spot in terms of their readings. So some people are extremely predictive readers, they find it very easy to predict. Some people are relationship readers, some people are career readers. And so you might be asking a question. That’s not really In your sweet spot, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with seeking out somebody who is really an expert in that. So, I did want to talk about that a little bit. And we’ll kind of get into it a little bit more as we talk about each of these four reasons why you might seek out a professional reading rather than doing it yourself. 

So Reason number one would be that you keep asking the same question over and over, and you’re not getting any clarity. So either you keep reading on the same situation and one day you’re getting, maybe you know, the four of cups and the next day you’re getting the 10 of cups. And then the next day you’re getting the five of swords and you’re just feeling very, very confused at feels like the energy of the readings are not in alignment with each other. Maybe you’re feeling a little bit of a frenzy, where you’re just kind of pulling card after card because you’re getting very confused. I love you, I have been you. I send you so much love and understanding. But for God’s sake, put down the tarot cards, give yourself a break, step away. Give yourself that opportunity to get a little bit of space between you and the question that you’re answering. Even if it feels super urgent, even if you can’t imagine putting it down right now, and really give yourself the opportunity to step away for a couple days. And I’m serious when I say this, give yourself that space. And then come back to the deck. Ask the question again, see if it feels different. If it feels like you’re getting a little more clarity, if you’re getting just that little bit of space has adjusted your ability to really connect with the question to connect with what your deck is trying to tell you, and to really approach things in a reflective and understand Way, rather than putting a ton of pressure on yourself to find the answer right now, because what I’ve found through several years of practice now is that when I find myself getting into this mode, I’m pulling card after card. And I’m confused and I can’t quite get clarity. And I feel that almost like desperation for clarity, that it’s really important that I give myself that little bit of space. Because sometimes even coming back later in the day, coming back a couple days later, could add a huge amount of perspective that was not there before. So I really do encourage you to try that first. Especially, especially given the way the world is today. And I know many of us are trying to be mindful about how we’re spending our money and our resources. And so I do really encourage you to see if you can figure it out yourself because Part of this whole Tarot journey is really being able to sit in the tough stuff with ourselves, to outsource when we really need it, but to try to give ourselves the space, and the time and the energetic and mental resources, to be able to come back to those same questions, or that same set of questions, and seek a new answer and seek greater clarity and greater understanding. And you can usually tell if you’re there if you’re feeling a little less urgency in the question asking and a little, a little more understanding and compassion for yourself, which is almost always where those answers come from. When we’re coming in with that desperation and that frenzy. It’s very hard to get a clear understanding, which isn’t to say that you shouldn’t ever pull if you feel that way. I am a very, very firm believer that you should come to your cards with whatever is In that moment, but I do think it’s really important that when we, when we approach something that is difficult that we don’t instantly outsource our power to someone else. My entire philosophy behind reading is really to come from a way that empowers myself and also empowers clients that I’m reading for. And so I am always looking for ways to bring the power back into my own hands, to make myself feel more comfortable more at ease, and to be able to sit with those messy emotions, or those complicated feelings that can come up and also to deal with that sense of urgency. And really notice what’s true about that urgency and what just feels true. And so I do really think that that is a good time. If you come back to your cards after And you still feel that you cannot get that clarity, you’re still feeling very confused. Or if it’s just not in your your area of expertise, and you just feel a little foggy about how to ask about it, or you just don’t feel like you’re getting the kind of answers that can provide you with actionable steps forward, then I would really encourage you to seek out somebody else. And just to get that, that outside perspective.

Just like you know, when we, when we struggle with mental health things we seek a therapist, or when we struggle with medical things, maybe we seek an herbalist or a doctor, that it’s just their expertise and they will maybe have an easier time answering that question for you. And it can really take the pressure off. I have also had this experience of as soon as I booked the appointment for the thing that I want to talk about that I’m suddenly a To read on it, it’s kind of that same sensation as you’re feeling really sick and then you go to the doctor’s office, and all of a sudden you feel better, it’s like, it’s like you the pressure is off a little bit and you’re able to see a little bit more clearly. So sometimes just taking that pressure off yourself by booking the appointment can also provide some clarity. So that’s reason number one. Reason number two, you’re too emotional about the situation. Now we touched on this a little bit in in reason one but I do want to talk about this because I am a huge proponent, and you’ll hear me time and time again talk about the fact that I have come to my cards when I am very emotional and very upset more often than I’ve come to them when I’m peaceful and calm. That’s just the type of person that I am. I am a highly emotional person. I’m a very sensitive person. I deal with a lot of energy on a daily basis. I have some passion trauma that I deal with. And so, I use my cards very specifically to help me with anxiety, with depression with other mental health struggles, and also with the struggles of daily life and feeling disappointed, frustrated, and 2020 especially so many of us dealing with this global pandemic, a huge amount of uncertainty that always existed but was never quite so directly in our faces. And so, I really do encourage you on a regular basis, to normalize coming to your cards when you are emotional, when you are in perfect, without ceremony or without need to make it a huge ritual or production but just to make it something that is a functional part of your daily life, which is one of the main tenants of my course practical, terrible for everyday intuitives. And one of the main things that I teach in our course How to really show up even when you are emotional. That said, we do have things that come up, you know, catastrophic breakups, job loss, highly stressful events that can be very wrapped up in emotion and self value and self worth and can really cloud our ability to see things clearly. And so I still encourage you to come to your deck to ask questions when things when things are going wrong, and you need that that pause and that clarity and that something to reflect on something to kind of interrupt that anxiety process. But I do think that if you’re finding that that is kind of a consistent state, first of all, I’m a huge proponent of therapy. So find yourself a good therapist talk it out, but I consider other Tarot readers And spiritual healers to be kind of the spiritual therapists and sometimes, that’s exactly what we need to find direction and clarity in our lives. It’s a huge a huge part of my business and what I do with career Tarot and giving people and empowering people to make the best decisions in different career moves. And so I really do encourage you if you feel like you have so much emotion wrapped up in something that you can’t quite see things clearly that you’re not, you’re not getting any kind of clear answer from your cards. Again, same philosophy as with situation one, where you can give yourself a little bit of time and see if you deregulate a little bit. If you start to calm down, if you start to feel more clarity, you can come back and see if it works out but especially when we are in some of the heavier emotions, grief, anxiety, maybe we’re recovering from trauma, it can be very helpful to have somebody else hold the space for us. Because I have had the experience of going in and having a reading done, and feeling so incredibly nurtured and taken care of that I can finally see, even as they’re pulling the cards, I can see what’s going on and I can get more clarity. And again, it’s similar to just like scheduling the appointment kind of takes the pressure off. But being in there with somebody else kind of holding that burden for you can offer a huge amount of comfort and a huge amount of clarity that it’s very hard to get when we’re under this fog of heavy duty emotion. And so I do really encourage you, if you are feeling that clouding of emotion or too much emotion, or too long, a prolonged period of emotion. I really do encourage you, that’s a great time to Seek out a reading to ask for a referral. 

Hey there, I want you to be the first to know that I am offering a free training Tarot for Real Life – Get your Shit together with the Tarot on Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 12pm eastern time, this workshop is extremely powerful. It talks about the top mistakes that new Tarot readers make. We’ll cover the neuroscience of Tarot and how it can stop the anxiety cycle, and the exact steps to follow to start reading effectively and efficiently for yourself. This is where the spirituality of the Tarot meets real life situations. And my goal is to have you leave that workshop, either with a reboot to your tarot reading or if you’re a brand new beginner with a good idea of how to get started. So you can sign up for that Free workshop in the shownotes today or if you already know that you are really interested in signing up for a tarot course, I will be opening the doors for my Tarot course for the last time for 2020 the course is called Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. It is a seven week Tarot course that takes you from brand new beginner to tarot reading Pro, and helps you learn how to bring that practice into real life, how to use the Tarot to help you make complex decisions effortlessly. So if that sounds good to you, you can sign up for the waitlist in the show notes today. 

Situation three is extreme stress and overwhelm. So I speak from experience when I say that those of us who do readings who are healers who are caretakers, and this goes above and beyond just People who do this for a living, but also people who read for themselves for for their own spiritual practice and for their own information, if you are going through a prolonged period of extreme stress and anxiety, if you are taking care of a sick loved one, if you are living through a global pandemic, if you are dealing with environmental stress in an unsafe neighborhood, if you are a person of color and you are feeling intense anxiety right now, because of police brutality, and white supremacy, then I encourage you to give yourself a little bit of space and again to go to someone who can really offer you a safe space to process everything that’s going on. It can be really hard to come into even just reading for yourself if you are under that kind of intense stress and it can be hard to give it the kind of energy and attention it deserves when you’re already working from a depleted place. And when we do feel that kind of chronic stress, that overwhelming feeling of just intense, intense stress, we can really struggle to have the brain space even just for for our daily lives to be fully present in our daily lives, to show up for the people who need us to show up for ourselves. And so this is one of those times when we can find our practice just kind of slipping kind of falling by the wayside. And if you know, for example, that you have a really stressful time coming up, either with work with family stuff, if you know that you’re acting as a long term caretaker for someone and you really are feeling that stress. It can be very, very helpful and very therapeutic to schedule time for yourself. Schedule an appointment with When else, you know that you will hold it, you know that you won’t move it. And that is not always the case with our own personal practice. And so it can really offer you a fixed time something that you are committed to. It offers an ability to be accountable to taking care of yourself to getting that clarity. And so if you are entering a period like that, if you know that you have something coming up, or if you’ve just been that person who’s like, oh, I’ll go next month, I’ll go next month, and it’s been like, I don’t know, more than two months. Maybe just schedule something, even if it’s farther out. Even if you can’t imagine having time right now. Most of us especially now, with so many readers, working online through video chat, can take at least a half hour 20 minutes, 60 minutes, whatever it is out of our day to really kind of check in, have somebody else hold the space for us live Listen to what we have going on and provide us some sort of feedback and insight. So that is situation number three. 

And then our final situation is if you’re really feeling called to, and this might sound obvious, but it’s not always because one of the things I’ve found in my personal practice is that and part of it is also like my relationship with money. My relationship with investing in myself, is that I think why should I pay for something that I can do myself, but I have found myself at times, feeling really called to get work done by somebody else, whether it’s energy work, whether it is a reading, just because I want to or just because I found someone whose work I really resonate with, and I want that kind of connection and so I’ve really found that if you are finding that kind of persistent thought coming up, if you follow somebody on Instagram, and you really love their work, or you love the way they write about things, or their slightly different perspective, even if it’s very different than your own, it can be a really wonderful exercise to give yourself the opportunity to go and treat yourself to that. And it doesn’t have to be a full hour it can be, you know, a half hour reading some people do parties. You know, it doesn’t have to be a super long reading in order for you to really feel that connection. And I do want to say that also, I have had incredibly profound readings with people who were coming into a party and we’re getting like a 15 minute reading and and called me or emailed me months later and said, Oh, my gosh, you know, I thought, you know, I was not really into it and and, you know, I thought the reading was interesting, but I didn’t really know how it was gonna work and then months later This is and this happened. And it was exactly what you said. And I’ve also had my own experience of getting, you know, a shorter couple card reading that was extremely powerful, and just very, very potent. So I really do encourage you. Even if you don’t have a full hour, even if you don’t have the resources to pay for a full hour, there are a lot of really wonderful opportunities and a lot of really talented readers who offer smaller offerings, shorter offerings, more accessible offerings, and can really offer a different perspective when you’re just really feeling called to that. And then there is also the element of you know, just something that sounds kind of fun. I I’ve seen readers do all different stuff that I just think is so creative and so innovative, and I just have to have it when I see it. I’m like, Oh, that’s so fascinating. Liquid an interesting way of looking at things. And so I do think that that when you see that that can be really exciting. And a good example of that is I know a lot of readers do your ahead readings around the new year or the end of the year into the new year.

Birthday readings, business, right? You know, all different kinds of things that people come out with throughout the year. So if you are seeing something like that, like, give yourself the permission, give yourself treat yourself, as I say, in parks and rec. And really give yourself that opportunity to take care. Because it is important. And I think that it’s easy with this work in particular to put things off and to say, Oh, well, if it’s still bothering me, like I’ll do it in a month or I’ll do it in two months, or I’ll do it next time I get paid or whatever it is and I’m not telling you to go into debt to get a tarot reading but I am telling you that it’s okay. And you don’t always have to justify every single thing to yourself, especially if you are a person if you are a professional reader, and you’re spending a lot of time holding space for other people, and putting a lot of energy out there to other people, and especially right now, when so many of us are feeling overwhelmed and maybe a little more anxious than usual with everything that’s going on in the outside world. So those four reasons again, just to recap, are you keep asking the same questions repeatedly. You’re too emotional about the situation, extreme stress and overwhelm and you’re just playing feeling called to it. So those are the reasons I also want to say and give a little bit of a caveat here, that I can be very helpful. Do your research before getting your reading. One of the things I’ve experienced as a reader is because I do multiple things. So I am a medium and a Reiki healer and a tarot reader. Sometimes people don’t fully read the descriptions of my services and assume that if they get a tarot reading with me that I will be communicating with their loved ones in spirit. And I know that that is how it works for some readers. It’s not how it works for me. Every once in a while somebody will show up but generally, I consider my tarot readings to be reading kind of like the Earthbound human energy flow less than the spirit side energy flow, and there’s absolutely messages that I’m getting from spirit guides and ancestors and angels. But it is not a communication with your loved ones who have passed. And so make sure that you read people’s descriptions. I do encourage you listening to podcasts, finding people on Instagram that you really resonate with. If you’ve been loving somebody posts for months and and you just love everything that they do book a reading, I mean, I pay that person for their time, first of all, but also, you know, obviously that is someone who’s reading style and who’s writing style and whose channeling style really connects for you. And I do encourage you to either go through a referral, or go through somebody like that, that you really connect with the way that they see the cards and the way that they see the world because it can really offer you a deeper understanding with In the reading, because you’re already feeling more comfortable, you’re already feeling like you’re connected with that person a little bit. So I do really encourage that as well. I will at some point, do a full episode on choosing the right spiritual practitioner for you. But I did just want to kind of put that in here at the end of this episode just to give you some ideas about how to get started looking for that. And of course, you can book with me through my website, I do have openings and I do readings every week. So that’s also a great option, just a shameless plug for myself there. But that’s all that I have for you today. I will be back next week with a brand new episode. And if you have any questions, you can always send them over to and I would love to hear them. 

Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you loved today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me @starsagespirit and let me know what you learned what surprised you and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episodes show notes you can head over to

Tarot and Astrology as a Language & Embodying the Four of Cups with Brady Waller

Brady Waller

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In this episode, I am joined by my guest, Astrologer, Tarot Reader and Author, Brady Waller. Brady and I talk about astrology and tarot as a language and how that is woven through all of the sessions they do and the work they teach. We also do a really beautiful deep dive on the suit of cups and how Brady has been working with the energy of the Four of Cups. We talk about the struggle that’s inherent in expressing emotion and sitting with discomfort And how, often the path of the cups is the hardest for us to walk.

  • We discuss being raised in a conservative environment and how you can start to grow your own roots outside of that.
  • We discuss how intuition is really just a conversation with yourself and how astrology and tarot give language to that conversation.
  • We discuss their upcoming program USastrology and how it can help us all process our feelings and frustrations around the upcoming election in the US.
  • We have a really fun conversation about the astrology of characters on the Netflix show “Anne with an E”.

Connect with Sheila:

Book a Tarot or Reiki session at or find her on Instagram

Work with Brady: and on for their USastology workshops

Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium, and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition, and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure, and embodied the taro along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing, empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the tarot.

Welcome back to Living Tarot. Today on the podcast I have Brady Waller. Brady is a non binary tarot reader, astrologer and author in the Philadelphia area. Helping others find their passion and purpose through soul oriented reflection. They seek to involve ritual and magic in all areas of life. Their practice is rooted in intuitive work and deep connection to mysticism via nature. They seek to continually evolve their practice in an attempt to be more inclusive and unsettled. Through the language of astrology, and the symbols of the Tarot, Brady facilitates introspection and connection to the inner self. I had the most wonderful conversation with Brady in particular about the suit of cups. And both of our reflections of moving through the cups, especially the middle of the cups, where Brady in particular finds a certain sense of embodiment around the four of cups. I had such a good time with this episode. I’m a huge fan of Brady and their work And I’ve taken multiple courses with them really enjoyed it. So I was so delighted to have them on this week. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Let’s dive in. 

Okay, so welcome. And today I have Brady on the podcast with me, Brady, tell us who you are and what you do in this world.

Brady Waller  2:21  

Yeah, um, my name is Brady, I, I guess run a tarot and astrology, semi business thing. That is called the Mythic Landscape where I spend a lot of time kind of diving into those archetypal systems as like holders of myth and story and ways for us to kind of interact with and engage with the world. And I offer readings and I write things and teach classes and all kinds of stuff like that.

Sheila M  2:52  

Yeah, I’m so I’m so excited to have you here. I have taken quite a few classes with Brady and And it’s really been enlightening to me. I really think one of your gifts is being able to bring some of these really complex ideas down to reality. And also to to really give them back to the person as a tool for for introspection and for observance rather than, like definition, especially with like astrology and that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on the podcast because I think your your perspective is so interesting and so unique. So tell me about how you kind of got into this whole astrology Tarot business. Were you always into that? Was that something that kind of came up later in life? What has that been like for you?

Brady Waller  3:52  

Yeah, it’s funny. I feel like I’ve told this story so many times that it’s all like it just flows now. I grew up in a really conservative Christian bubble. So my mom led worship at the church that we went to and both of my parents taught at a little Christian school that I went to for my whole life. So I had no access to these things at all. Like they just weren’t. I knew what astrology was from, like newspaper horoscopes, and I knew what Tarot was from like charmed or something like that. You know, like that. My that was my exposure to magic. And I read Harry Potter all the time. So like, that was probably actually my exposure, magic. I’m sorry, mom. Anyway, um, was probably like coming out of high school that I really just wanted to rebel and find my own way of viewing the world and the witchy section and Barnes and Noble spoke to me. Um, so I like bought a tarot deck and probably bought my first astrology book, which was trash, but it’s fine. I was like this desire to just learn everything about magic. And so I think I didn’t get into Tarot and astrology with the intention of being a tarot reader or being an astrologer. They were just like part of this new worldview that I was trying to figure out. And eventually, they ended up being the things that stuck around. I think a lot more than most of the other traditional like witchy and pagan things that I was exposed to originally. I think because Tarot and astrology, you know, can bring it back to the conversation that we’re wanting to have. Tarot and astrology speak to my intuition in much deeper ways than more traditional forms of magic, I think. Yeah, they feel like more accessible. Yeah, that’s probably why they’ve become like the center of what I do now.

Sheila M  5:51  

Yeah, I love I love that because I feel like we we come from similar backgrounds and I had the this experience as as a child of like, seeing my parents leaving church and feeling so like connected and fulfilled in a way that I clearly just did not, and felt like I was missing that piece of my life. And and it’s so interesting, like hearing, like a similar perspective. And I know it’s true for a lot of, like witchy type of people that that that has been their experience, but I do think it’s really comforting to people that are maybe still in it or still feeling that pressure. To be to know that that kind of agency is available, I think is is really amazing. So did you jump right in with formal training? Are you primarily self taught?

Brady Waller  6:44  

Yeah, I’m almost completely self taught. I think most of the classes I’ve taken have been after offering readings to people already just in a desire to kind of further education and because I’ve met new people, and I’ve wanted to take their classes but I don’t The true child of an English teacher and Capricorn mercury that I am, I basically learned everything, either through actual experience or through reading. Just doing lots and lots of reading and reading kind of all kinds of different perspectives probably was where I learned the most, at least initially.

Sheila M  7:22  

Yeah, yeah. That’s so interesting too, because it’s such like a, such like the opposite of how I like I learned a lot through practice. And from kind of, like, just repetition of things, but I struggled really hard to learn things through reading. So you think it’s very, I do think it’s very interesting to hear that as well. Because I know so many people connect with that and then like, sometimes I can and sometimes I can’t and with this stuff, it’s very hard. It’s almost like a different channels or something. 

Brady Waller  7:54  

Do you know where your Mercury is? Okay, yeah. So that’s what it is, is Like a fireside Mercury is going to filter the world through like actual experiences its fire, it wants to go out and do things and engage and get its hands on it. And I feel like especially with the Capricorn or Virgo, Mercury people and their earth sign Mercury’s it’s a lot about just being exposed to the information. Like I learned the best when I’m in my own container and I’m just absorbing it and kind of able to critique it myself and then I have to take it out to other people and get feedback but that’s always the second step.

Sheila M  8:32  

Right right right. So when you when you kind of came into this you started reading and you found that you really connected with astrology and Tarot more. How did how did you go from being like a curious person who enjoyed this learning to somebody who was like, yeah, let me go give readings to people.

Brady Waller  8:55  

Yeah, I think there’s probably two, two levels. To that answer, and they almost ran simultaneously, which was one of them was just spending tons of time in self study. I, you know, in those first couple years of really being obsessed with Taro would be reading like pulling spreads for myself every day and like spending hours reading books and like studying the cards and it was just, I mean, all I did was go to my normal job at that point and then come home and do Tarot or astrology things. So it was really nice. And then I would just start doing readings for my friends. Like my one friend Liv, and I probably sat in Barnes and Noble Starbucks area coffee shops for like, a month. And we would just like sit there and do readings and talk and it was great. Because it led my initial practices be conversational because I wasn’t reading for people. I didn’t know I wasn’t trying to predict the future. It was like Hey, you just told me what was going on in your life, let’s pull some cards and talk about it. So I think that’s actually more than anything else. That’s what helped me is that all of my initial readings were with people whose lives I knew intimately. And so there was never a moment of like, Oh, I’m trying to put on a show for this person and convince them it was always like, no, we’re going to talk about your life. And we’re gonna apply this directly, because I know how to apply this directly to your life. I’m in it.

Sheila M  10:24  

Right, right. And so how, how was this received by the people around you that you were close with at the time, either your family of origin or your chosen family, so to speak?

Brady Waller  10:36  

Sure. I mean, family of origin was kept out of this for the most part, until I think I started being a little bit more professional. chosen family was all in it, but that’s because I think my chosen family was chosen for a reason. You know, like I chose them because they would let me do these things and we’re interested in them as well and wanted to learn more with me. Yeah, I was really blessed I think by having a lot of friends who also wanted to learn these things and would let me like, read cards for them for hours on end. Like give them a birthday present that wasn’t actually a birthday present. It was just a virtual right. Definitely did that for like a year straight. gave no one birthday presents just did their birth charts.

Sheila M  11:19  

Yeah, I was like, I mean, I think that’s one of the bonuses to be an astrologer. And but, I mean, I would think that’s a great gift. Maybe not everybody would but I do think it’s really interesting. And I think that especially when it comes to astrology, I think people approach with like such a curiosity and a desire to understand things about why they are the way they are. And I think that’s one of the things I’ve learned from from taking classes with you is kind of breaking down these individual ideas and offering like this opportunity to reflect so how how was that kind of received by everybody when we’re giving unsolicited birthday, which I like I said, I would love that I think that’s like the best gift. But I mean, or that all of my friends would agree.

Brady Waller  12:15  

People enjoyed it. I think people put up with me and probably a little bit but they enjoyed it. Um I think I was lucky that I knew these people well enough that I could kind of afford to make the statements that I you should never make in a reading about these people because they were my friends, you know. So like, I had a level of casual conversation with them that led me because I was kind of figuring out what my language was going to be and how I wanted it to be an astrologer. And exactly what I was looking for in a chart and how I wanted to frame things. And so I definitely set a lot of things wrong, I think early on, and probably frame things and lights that weren’t helpful or use language that just wasn’t going to be supportive. And I think I was really blessed. To have a group of friends who would just be like, they’re figuring it out, like, you know, where it just, it probably would have come a lot worse if it was coming from somebody who wasn’t their friend. So I’m pretty grateful for that. But I could like do what we’re probably really bad chart readings and not alienate people. And not like get in trouble because somebody paid for this and I told them bad things. Yeah.

Sheila M  13:23  

Right. Right. And so Okay, so you started out with that, which was very, I think, nurturing from what you’re saying and and offered you kind of that space to really start to learn and integrate some of of what you had read about and everything. But what was the transition point where you decided that you really wanted to offer this as like, a service that you would be paid for? Because I know for a lot of people that’s like an enormous step and is incredibly intimidating.

Brady Waller  13:52  

Yeah. Well, I’m was blessed again. I mean, I know I can talk about why in a minute, but I was blessed to have connections. I was blessed to have the Prana House and Jacque, who’s the owner who I adopt, you know, by the point that I wanted to give paid readings, was pretty good friends with Jacque already and had known her for a couple years and had been going into the punish Prana house at least once a month. So I just was blessed by having a good relationship with somebody who could give me a chance to do that. And somebody who already knew me and like we had a relationship and I was trusted and like all of that was awesome. To talk about it astrologically I have my moon in Taurus in the 11th house. And so the moon is in traditional language exalted in Taurus, which really just means that the moon has access to all of the resources that it likes. It has all the things that it wants in Taurus. And in the 11th house, we’re talking about community. We’re talking about the connections that you make with other people. And so I think it often works out but like, I’ve just frequently been blessed to have People who can put me in positions. And that’s almost like a point of privilege in my chart, I think and something that I’m always aware of is that I have this this privileged moon that kind of is always in the right position. And trying to be aware of that and trying to think about how I can not undo that, but kind of use that privilege in a more communally beneficial way, perhaps.

Sheila M  15:28  

Yeah, yeah. That’s so it’s so cool. And I think in so many of these stories that I’m hearing like, there always seems to be some time to like, right person, right time, right community or somebody just kind of pops out of out of nowhere and, and offers that. That entry point into something new and exciting. So I love that I think that’s so cool. And so when you first started reading for strangers, obviously super different um, how How did it feel? Was it something that you kind of, like loved doing right away? Or was it challenging for you to move into? Did it feel really natural? What was that experience like?

Brady Waller  16:10  

I mean, it definitely pushed me out of my comfort zone. Um, I’ve always been a very introverted and behind the scenes person, and I would still claim that as my identity today. And what what doing public readings kind of forced me into was a much more visible space. So I had to figure out how I wanted to be visible, which was a process. I was still I think, probably at least for the first year determining exactly what my voice was going to be. And at that point, I think I was learning on the job. And was was kind of figuring out every reading so like doing readings was really exciting because everyone was a chance to be like, okay, when I frame this this way, I get this kind of response. Or when I talk about this card in this way for this personality Maybe I should think about my language there or like, whatever. So I think like, early on, it still was a big learning process. And I think I still was figuring stuff out. And that’s, that’s sort of what intuition is, to me almost is that it’s just this, like ever evolving relationship with who we are and how we’re going to put ourselves out there and what we want to be saying and doing.

Sheila M  17:24  

Yeah, yeah. And that’s, that’s really beautiful. And I think one of the things that, that I hear a lot from people is, well, like, I don’t really know, like, I think this is my intuition. I don’t really know like, how, what was your moment of like, kind of like knowing

Brady Waller  17:47  

I almost think the first tangible moment that I can think of.I was I worked at bar normal for three years, that was my longest kind of real world job.And I probably about six months before I left mentally knew that I wanted to leave. I had just started doing readings, I was just kind of mentally checked out of being in retail a backplane. But it took me about six months to make up my mind. And for the last month, month and a half, I was pulling the tower at least once a week, if not multiple times a week. And it was this moment of like, build and build and build until I was finally like, you know what, I get it. I know, okay, like I’m working on it. Um, and then I put in my two weeks and the tower stop showing up. And so that was kind of this moment of Taro became the language for my intuition, because I wasn’t listening to my actual intuition. You know, like, I knew that I wanted to leave in March or April, and it took until October to actually get around doing it. And it took Tarot having to shout at me, for me to actually listen to intuition. And that was kind of the moment where it really set in and clicked. And I was like, Okay, I don’t even necessarily need these things. But they’re still really helpful. Like, they’re the voice box for this sense that I should already be listening to. And that was just really powerful for me to like, and to step back into theory for a moment, I guess. One of my favorite early teachers who just doesn’t doesn’t do things anymore, was Tess Giberson, the city witch, Tess just, you know, doesn’t have a practice at the moment at all, which is a shame, I really missed their voice. But one of the things that I learned from them was that intuition is basically a relationship with self. That when we’re speaking to our intuition, we’re speaking to our inner self. And then within that framework and applying the idea of astrology or Tarot being a language, which is something that I was exposed to through Allah, sparkly cat, I, the idea might kind of precede them. But that’s definitely where I was exposed to that idea of like astrology as language. And this just created this wonderful little metaphoric theory, kind of in my head that if intuition is a relationship and a conversation with self, then something like astrology or Tarot or any other supposedly tool of divination is really just the language we’re using to converse with ourself. And that was just like this moment of, oh, okay, that’s what I’m doing. And now, it just all fell into place from there, I think, at least on a personal level.

Sheila M  20:45  

Yeah, I love that so much because I think um, yeah, there’s so much of what you said there that that I can relate to, in my own experience, because I had had this experience of reading people, my whole Life since I was like really young, and that, not knowing why people didn’t get what I got, or why people didn’t feel what I felt, because again, if it’s your only experience here, no other context of knowing that it’s different for other people, I didn’t know that I was hearing energy. Like I didn’t understand any of that. And so when I, when I started with the Tarot and again, like, I already had the connection with intuition before that, but so much of what you’re saying makes sense to me because I just, I had had these cards I tried to learn, couldn’t learn from the book. Put it down, I left it on the shelf for like six months and then came back to it because I literally was like, getting a very strong message to come back to it and all of a sudden could just do it. Like, everybody’s like, how did you learn? I’m like, I don’t know. Like, yeah, I really just did. I just picked them up the one day and I just kind of got it and And that’s what it was like to me. If, if somebody sits down with me, I’m like, no 20 different things about them. But Tarot was like the language that that tells the story of, of what’s really important right now.

Brady Waller  22:14  

Yeah, for sure. I was just listening to a talk from the queer astrology conference, which was a couple weeks ago and was phenomenal. I do think that they might eventually make the recordings available for sale. So people who weren’t there should totally do that. There were some great talks, but the one I was listening to was about horror area astrology, which is the astrology of answering questions. And the way it works basically, just for a quick run through is that somebody comes to you and they ask you a question. And you as the astrologer marked down the exact moment when the question was asked, and then you analyze the chart for that moment, and the chart has the answer to the question. And so that was like that was like the really even in Greek and Roman times and then moving forward into traditional and even Renaissance times, that was the main form of astrology because there weren’t reliable birth times. So it was really hard to do a birth chart, if you didn’t know when somebody was born, you have no house if you don’t know where the moon was. And you also didn’t have a level of science where we could hit a button on our computer and calculate the chart, let alone like even looking at ephemeris ephemeris is don’t exist until like the 16th or 17th century. So early astrology was, was often this person has a question, Where is everything right now? What does that tell us? And so in this talk, basically, the the speaker was saying, corollary astrology is at the root of all definition, all the other divinations are just different languages that are speaking what the stars are right now. Because basically every form of divination is the same. somebody asks a question, and then you do your divination, and that’s the answer. It was just really cool to kind of frame it that way. Obviously, as an instructor I’m biased. And so I love the concept of astrology being at the bottom of everything, but I do think it’s it’s just a wonderful way to talk about language. Like ultimately, all forms of divination are saying the same thing. They’re just saying them with different languages. And so they come across different they sound different. They have different inflections.

Sheila M  24:19  

Yeah, and I, I think it’s so like, That’s such a cool thing. I first of all, I did not know at horary astrology was. But that’s so interesting, the way that you broke that down, because I do think that there’s an element of that and all of this, I even, I looked at charts for when to release the podcast to like, went to lunch and everything. Um, and I think it’s very, I just think it’s so interesting and also, how, like you said, there’s all these different paths that kind of converge on the same thing, which I think is so powerful. Um, I love that. I also loved what you said about intuition before. Conversation with self as well. Because, um, like when I was young, I would experience it as if I was talking to myself. Like, I would ask a question and hear it in my own voice and now I know what that was as a kid I thought I would I don’t know what I thought I was doing. Like that, like everybody that again. Like all these things that I’m like, man, I must have been like a really weird kid. And now I’m like, Okay, this makes a lot more sense. And I it was like, it wasn’t until I was older that I really had an understanding of what was going on that I was having. You know that I’m a medium that I was having these like transient spirits trying to get my help at night while I was asleep to help them cross over because they were confused and didn’t know what was going on. But as a kid that is terrifying. Like, truly like confronting So did you have moments in this kind of journey into like, really trusting intuition and connecting where you felt fear or anxiety or anything like that coming up for you.

Brady Waller  26:13  

Yeah, I mean, I definitely have. I’m actually gonna use astrology to talk about this for a moment. Yeah, I feel like my my intuition. When we’re looking at the chart for intuition, just as, as an aside, you will frequently look to the 12th house first house axis, which is your rising sign. And anything that might be situated around there is going to have something to do with your intuition because from the 12th house to the first house is where we incarnate, it’s hypothetically because it’s where the sun would come up. It’s also where the soul would descend down into the body. That’s the like, esoteric theory. And so you would look to your rising sign and that’s where intuition is going to be very often. You can also look to the asteroid Pallas Athena And for me palace is a big intuition, marker and whatever sign you have Palisson and maybe the house is like how your intuition often manifests. So I have my palace in my sixth house in Sagittarius, which is also where my sun is. It’s also where my Pluto and my Venus are. Although palaces and close to anything else, actually, anyway, for me, my intuition is always about planning what’s going to come next anticipating what’s going to come next having some sort of vision of where I want to go. That’s what intuition is. For me most of the time, it’s about what change is coming. The problem is, is that I have this lovely Taurus moon that is utterly resistant to change. And so what often ends up happening with my intuition is that I get this hit or I get this calling or this feel or this like, kind of moment of Revelation where like, Oh my god, this is what I need to do. This is where I need to be. This is where I should be putting my energy into my moons like Nope, let’s just keep doing the same thing we always do. And so I think that’s usually where fear comes in and resistance comes in is that like, there is just a part of me that’s really comfortable where I am. And my intuition is always trying to get me to go somewhere new. So that’s kind of like a big internal battle. I think that I I fight with my intuition often is like, how far outside of my comfort zone Am I willing to go right now?

Sheila M  28:28  

Hey there, I want you to be the first to know that I am offering a free training, Tarot for Real Life – Get Your Shit Together with the Tarot on Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 12pm eastern time, this workshop is extremely powerful. It talks about the top mistakes that new Tarot readers make, will cover the neuroscience of Tarot and how it can stop the anxiety cycle, and the exact steps to follow to start reading effective And efficiently for yourself. This is where the spirituality of the Tarot meets real life situations. And my goal is to have you leave that workshop, either with a reboot to your tarot reading or if you’re a brand new beginner with a good idea of how to get started so you can sign up for that free workshop in the show notes today or if you already know that you are really interested in signing up for a tarot course I will be opening the doors for my Tarot course for the last time for 2020 of course is called Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. It is a seven week Tarot course that takes you from brand new beginner to tarot reading Pro, and helps you learn how to bring that practice into real life, how to use the Tarot to help you make complex decisions effortlessly. So if that sounds good to you, you can sign up for the waitlist in the show notes. today

Extremely, extremely relatable. I always say when it comes to any spiritual experiences and I think the standard that I set with my whole spirit team or whatever you want to call them is that I really need to be like thrown into things like I am not a super willing to be really experimental. I’m very comfortable you know being in front of people and I on the other hand would very much identify as an extrovert in most ways both like being comfortable talking in public and everything but also outwardly expressing things so like if I’m really emotional about stuff I need to like communicate it which also is probably mercury and Leo as well. But but it like just like a super extrovert about these things, but I think that I I struggle With the transition and really being like, okay, I’ll just like see what happens now. And I think part of it, like, I’ve just been like kind of thrown into the deep end on stuff like, it wasn’t like it just kind of nothing really kind of trickles in. It’s just like, all of a sudden it’s there, and I’m having to integrate and deal with it in a very, like, non subtle way.

Brady Waller  31:24  

Hmm, that’s interesting. I feel like I’m definitely the opposite like, much like my leaving Barnes and Noble story, I think that the intuition comes and then it takes me time to actually go and do the thing and I kind of have to be prepared to do the thing. Like I have to have mentally gotten there already before I can physically do it. And that’s even funny because one of the only stories my mom ever tells me about being a little kid is that she would have to give me warnings before we changed, like location or before we change doing things so like if she had to take me somewhere on an hour. She’d be like, Hey Brady in 30 minutes we’re gonna go in 20 minutes we’re gonna go in 10 minutes we’re gonna get you should get your shoes on like I had to keep getting worn or I wouldn’t I couldn’t just adjust and go do something new and I would be traumatizing for small Brady apparently. So I just think that’s really funny because it’s definitely how I actually work now is I have to have been mentally prepared for a while before I can do something huge.

Sheila M  32:25  

That is so funny. My my youngest sister was like that when she was young too. I felt like needs that transition time. And it is funny from from when you talked about like knowing that you had to leave that job until actually doing it. So I had a kind of a similar experience I’d been in my corporate job for Well, I’ve been in corporate America for like 12 years at that point, but I’ve been in that particular job for like seven and I just woke up this one day after like not taking like any sick time for literally like seven years. I just woke up this one day and I was like I just like need the day off, like, I can’t work, like a cannot work today. And it was November 2018. And I was like, I just I can’t. And I didn’t. So I called out and then I called up the next day. And then I called out the third day and on the third day, I was like, Okay, I gotta I gotta leave this job like it’s happening in three days, like the decision was made, it was happening. And but it did take me six months to actually do it because I needed to like, mentally plan, there was a lot of stuff going on, like transition wise, we were moving like we had all this stuff going on. So I was like, Sure, I need like a little bit of a cushion here. So like the decision was made, like, basically in a day, but after that it took like six months for me to actually feel comfortable doing it, and it still didn’t. I mean, that’s the other thing that I do want to say to people to still didn’t feel comfortable. Like No, yeah. I mean, it was not I was not comforted. I didn’t feel like 100% this is I knew it was the right thing but I Sheila, not intuitive Sheila was like, kicking and screaming like I mean, and still I’m at times kicking and screaming.

Brady Waller  34:10  

Yeah, there are definitely moments where I’m like, I miss walking out of a building and knowing I have no more responsibilities, like, that was a good feeling. Being in the building was not but walking out and being like, that’s the end of my day. I don’t have to worry about anything anymore. That was great. Because now I think I get some so often pulled into the Oh, well, I couldn’t be doing something right now. Which is a pain.

Sheila M  34:34  

Yeah, I mean, just like a chronic issue for business owners. I think even even when you do have like the ability to be very, like gentle with yourself, I think is still really challenging and I don’t I don’t have that in my personality. I don’t have it in my chart. I mean, maybe you do but it’s it’s very hard for me to like just like be like, no, it’s fine to do nothing.

Brady Waller  34:58  

Yeah. I mean, I think my Taurus moon always thinks it’s fine to do nothing but the rest of my chart disagree.

Sheila M  35:06  

I think all the time how much I could use my Taurus energy in my life because I’m like, like, 

Brady Waller  35:14  

it’s my favorite. I love it. Tauruses out there, you’re wonderful. I cherish you

Sheila M  35:23  

for real. And so you’ve been doing all of this for quite a quite a bit of time now and have done I assume hundreds of readings, all different types. And what would you tell people who are like on the fence about getting either astrology reading or a tarot reading? about like, what it can really open up for them?

Brady Waller  35:50  

I mean, honestly, anything, is the annoying, vague answer. Um, I genuinely do mean that. I mean, I think that Tarot because it’s such a radically inclusive language, when it’s used correctly, is able to basically address anything because Taro inherently is archetypal. And it’s talking about the energy of a situation it’s never actually talking about a specific situation. And that’s to me the both the beauty and the almost disappointment I think sometimes of the rider Waite Smith conundrum that it has created of like decks that have minor arcana with scenes like I love scenes in my minor arcana. I think it’s so fun. I think it adds such a cool level. But also, I think oftentimes it creates this idea that like, that specific situation is the card. And that’s never true. Like the card is just talking about the energy of what it feels like to be in a situation like that. So that’s like I think Tarot can be applied to anything them. But even more effectively, I think astrology can be applied to anything because it has been applied to everything forever. Even and I don’t even just mean like the westernized, European and US centered astrology that everybody is familiar with. I mean, all types of astrology is for all of history have been applied to all portions of life. And so ultimately, like, as long as you’re working with the right astrologer, you can look at anything with astrology. And I’m probably not the right astrologer for everything. Actually, I know I’m not the right astrologer for everything. And that’s kind of the beauty of it is that, you know, astrology is such a broad field and such a broad science with so many different areas that you don’t have to be able to do everything to be good. You just have to be good at the things you do.

Sheila M  37:57  

Yeah, I love that and I think it’s really important too. And one of the things that I’ve really stressed to people, when I talk about getting any kind of reading or spiritual work is to really like do your research beforehand and try to find somebody part of the reason I wanted to do this podcast also is because it offers such an opportunity for people to get to know me and the way I talk about these things. And that’s how I’ve connected with so many people who have taught me who have done readings for me, and really know that that person was the right fit, because there’s nothing nothing worse than going in and thinking that you’re getting one thing and getting something completely different.

Brady Waller  38:38  

Yeah, I think that’s one of the beauties of this kind of new renaissance of Tarot and astrology that we’re seeing, you know, maybe even in the last 5-10 years, especially on social media is that it’s so easy to get to know the voice and the style of somebody that you might go get a reading with. And if you look backwards, In 30 or 40 years, like your main access to how an astrologer functioned was either word of mouth or books that they had written. And then you had to have known where those books were and have come across that book somehow and then you had to get on the person’s waiting list and like, you know, like it was such a difficult process. And I think today we are blessed by the innumerable number of podcasts and websites and social media accounts that are kind of devoted to just sharing different people’s voices and letting them be more accessible.

Sheila M  39:34  

Yeah, yeah. So um, so with all of this, what does that connection for you with Tarot and astrology and intuition? How does that kind of weave into your daily life now?

Brady Waller  39:49  

Yeah, I mean, I think it comes back to them being languages. Astrology more than Tarot at this point, but some of that’s the person that I’m living with who is also an astrologer. Shout out to Flying Fish Astro on Instagram go follow Deni. They’re awesome. Anyway, so yeah, I think that that the most frequent way that they show up and it’s not even as intuition as much as it is like as me practicing language is that everything I interact with gets associated with astrology. So Deni and I are watching “Anne with an E” the Netflix series together and it’s so good first of all amazing series. It’s a we’ve been sitting here and astrologically analyzing all of the characters and learning about the signs through how we’re archetype playing these characters. So like if you’re familiar with the show, Anne is clearly sag- Gemini polarity we no doubt about it. Marilla is pure Virgo. Matthew is pure Taurus like it’s just it’s so good because that’s It just lets us kind of talk about, well, the astrology and the show really interchangeably. So that’s probably one of the ways that it shows up in my everyday life. I pull cards constantly, if I like, turn this camera around, you just see decks everywhere in my room on like, the top of every, like space, like all of my bookshelves and like Bureau and stuff, they’re just all covered in decks. Um, and that’s, I think, a really good way for me to check in with my intuition. Whenever is like there’s just a deck Let me pull this card see what it says where How am I feel and how does that relate to this card? And it’s it’s just really nice. I don’t think I almost I almost never use guidebooks anymore. It’s just like, what is this card look like? How am I feel and I at the beginning of this podcast I pulled from the portable fortune deck, which is a really cool deck of playing cards actually, that all have little phrases on them and I got the Joker Which is protection from crippling despair. 

Sheila M  42:04  

That’s good. 

Brady Waller  42:05  

And it’s got like a little Pelican. That’s like looking at an oil spill. I just thought that was really interesting as like, today’s new moon and yesterday’s sun mercury conjunction. When we’re recording this not for anybody listening was all about hope for me. Everything has been about hope. And so I think that this was just a really cool card to be like, hey, reminder, be hopeful. That’s the astrological energy we’re in. I love that.

Sheila M  42:34  

I love that I love everything you said about watching the shows and seeing those different interactions and seeing astrology and the characters and stuff because it’s funny. Like you said, all of these situations in the Tarot have like an energy to them. And I will talk to friends and stuff about things going on and see like the eight of cups or like, once or whatever it is, in in whatever is going on. So I do think that’s so cool and I love I love conversations like that and friends that I guess nerd out about that stuff on. So, because you are a reader, what card Do you really find yourself maybe connecting with feeling like you really embody? Well it can be more than one. I know for a lot of us it’s really hard to pick just one,

Brady Waller  43:22  

Ugh changes all the time. It’s never consistent. As a Sagittarius temperance has always been near and dear to my heart, and I actually have the beginnings of it tattooed on my chest and whenever I feel comfortable with being that close to a human being again, forget the rest of it tattooed on my chest. I have I’m in our hermit year this year, and that’s another car that I’ve always been really partial to. This has been excluding, you know, the external world on the on a personal level. It’s been a really lovely year. I moved, I’m in a wonderful new place. I’m living with a lot of my best friends. Like there’s a lot of good stuff going on in my personal life at least. And so it’s been really nice to be in hermit year and get that kind of experience and be like, yeah, the hermit is not shitty. Like I’m just doing my thing. Um I think let’s see. I’ll just keep shouting out friends. So I get the monthly Sincerely the Tarot letters every month from from Jordan of sincerely, the tarot. Yeah, shout out to him. He’s wonderful. Everyone should follow him too. Um, I’m the four of cups this month and that felt really resonant. And so I think that’s a card that I’ve been sitting with a lot the last couple weeks, especially thinking about how maybe Am I four of cups How can I embody four of cups? What does it look like to say? yes that fourth cup if we’re in the rider Waite Smith world. You know, I think it’s been a fun practice. So that’s probably the one that I’m in the most right now and spending the most time with.

Sheila M  45:11  

Yeah, I think that’s really interesting to just kind of given everything going on in the external world as well because I feel like so many people are being offered something now that it’s not what they envisioned, and maybe not what they ultimately wanted. But having to like you can choose to kind of take this and make it work, you know, especially as business owners. You can choose to take this and make it work or you can choose to continue being like pouty.

Brady Waller  45:44  

i think it’s it’s like where, what is the magic you can make in the situation, not often. I find myself kind of adapting New Agey phrases for tarot cards and not like I really hate the new age as a movement. That’s controversial opinion, I think trash and I’m not not gonna hold back. But what I do appreciate is that so many of the ideas are just like slightly off. And it’s just like you were so close. Let’s Let’s make change that a little. So like, there’s to me, there’s nothing about four of cups that is actually law of attraction. But there is something beautiful about four of cups. That is, if you look in any situation, you can find something to work with. And even if that doesn’t negate the fact that the situation still might be horrible, but there is something for you to work with. There is something for you to connect with in every situation. And so it’s not like, well, if you think good thoughts, good things will come to you like No, that’s not what we’re saying. What we’re saying is that you can choose to view things however you want. And you do get to make that choice. It doesn’t change the abstract reality, like reality is reality, but you get to choose how you engage with that. And so I think that Often a four of cups message for me is like how can I create the right container that actually lets me engage with the world? In a way that still has hope to come back to the hope idea? Yeah. Yeah.

Sheila M  47:13  

I love I love that you said that too, because I, I hate the word manifestation so much. It makes me so angry. And it really, it really frustrates me, but especially when it comes to four of cups. I think that’s what I have always really liked about that card. Is that there and this year, like, there are so many examples of it where like you can do we never had control. First of all, we’re just seeing that more clearly now. Yeah, but especially like a lot of people are being handed a pretty bitter pill and like, having to figure out how to deal with it. And I think, you know, it’s so funny. I was just talking right before we came on. I was talking to a friend this morning. So I also teach yoga and It’s been a really challenging time for a lot of yoga teachers because a lot of studios are closing, a lot of stuff is shifting. But again, if in these situations where these things close, it’s not about like shutting down any disappointment, but it’s also about okay, but like, what opportunity is there? Like Yes, this is frustrating, it’s disappointing. It’s not quite what you hoped would happen. But it also kind of forces you, you know, out of your Taurus moon comfort zone and and to really try to like confront some new ideas and some new things. And I think that’s, I think that’s really beautiful.

Brady Waller  48:35  

I think it’s, it’s even more powerful inside of that when you think about the rest of the suit of cups, right? Because the four of cups is this if the four of cups is this moment of like, hey, what is the opportunity in this situation? Then you get to the five of cups next and it’s like great. You saw the opportunity now grieve for the things you did lose like the four of cups doesn’t go right into moving on. It’s like, No, you, you make your decision about what you do want to view and then you have to hold space to grieve for what you can’t do anymore or for what you lost or for what you’re saying no to by saying yes to something else. Like, I think that’s such a profound step. Almost more. I love that step from four to five in cups more than any of the other steps. That’s just one of my favorites.

Sheila M  49:25  

Yeah. And I think it’s really important and I, I talk about grief a lot too. And, and, you know, death and grief and multiple deaths and grief and, and, and how, in America in particular, people have been taught that, that like, first of all, that it’s a step by step process, which is insanity. You don’t just move through a couple steps of grief and then you’re fine. Um, but also, that there’s kind of this idea that you have to like shove down anything that’s like, not Pretty, we’re not like socially acceptable like it’s acceptable to be angry it’s not acceptable to be depressed. Um, and and all of like the language that surrounds that and I really, I have always really liked the cups for that like vulnerability and almost like where like I feel like with with the ones it’s a lot of like speed and action with the cups I feel like it’s a lot of like stillness and like nurturing as you move along and it really is that opportunity to do the opposite of what we do so much in life and really like sit with the feeling even if it’s a negative feeling so to speak. And I’m really offer yourself the opportunity to to acknowledge what’s true for you.

Brady Waller  50:48  

Yeah, I definitely agree the suit of cups probably stands apart more than any of the others as the least chosen path to go down. I think we typically choose the other paths not And like, that’s fine. Like they’re a good bad student. But there’s, you know, there are moments where we should probably be on a cups journey as opposed to perhaps swords or Pentacles or wands.

Sheila M  51:12  

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I also think, in a lot of situations, choosing a cups type reaction offers a different experience, especially when it comes to interpersonal relationships, like choosing to go that way and offer some some vulnerability is met with a very different response by like, going to swords or wands especially, I say this as somebody who’s very prone to go to wands.

Brady Waller  51:41  

Yeah, for sure.

Sheila M  51:43  

Yeah, yeah. So um, oh my gosh, I love this. I love this conversation so much. Um, so, um, I do want to take a moment to talk about some of the stuff that you’re working on right now. And in particular, I know you have this Usastrology, five part series that you’re working on and I want to hear all about it. I read about it, but can you tell us a little bit more about the series?

Brady Waller  52:10  

Yeah. So it gives some, I guess, background context. I’ve been doing weekly Astro hens, pretty much almost since quarantine began, like we started in April. And we’ve been doing them almost every Sunday. Just there’s been a somewhat consistent group of people, but it’s it’s changed and fluctuated and we get together every week on zoom, and we talk about random astrology things. we’ve kind of been all over the board in terms of topics, but something that has been coming up really consistently over the summer especially as the Coronavirus situation intensified and then there was the mass eruption of protests after the murder of George Floyd. Something that kept coming up no matter what we were talking about was the US chart and people wanting to know because everybody It kind of it seems like an astrological community or who’s just vaguely aware of astrology knows, there’s big transits coming up for the US in this decade. That’s been language that’s been thrown around, I think quite a bit. And so like the fact that that conversation just kept coming up, made me really want to be able to offer something to people about it. You know, I’m a sixth house son, I want to be of use to my community and I have a Sag sun. And so if I know things, I want to tell other people about them and if there’s an opportunity for me to learn things and then tell tell other people even better. So I actually just kind of on my own started doing research on the US chart, the astrology podcast released a really wonderful us chart episode in July that I used for a lot of research and reference. Shout out to Chris Brennan. Um, yeah, I mean, that’s kind of the background It is of why I wanted to do this series and also like we’re in utter chaos in the United States. And this election has just it has been disappointing beyond belief. And so I kind of wanted to offer something that would, you know, in some way, give astrological context, because that usually helps me feel better. And I wanted to feel better. And so some of my goal is just to give context for everything that we’re experiencing, and to explain maybe why some of this stuff is going on as best as I can, as best as I understand it, but also to just kind of give everybody a better view of like, what is the psychology? What is the identity of the United States? How does it get impacted by the transits that we’re having right now? What can we expect looking forward the rest of this decade and even for the next four years with whichever one of these old men become our president. You know, if if you can Until I’m very disappointed with our options. But I think we’re having looked at both of their charts, it’s going to be really, there’ll be good conversations. Yeah, they’re annoying. 

Sheila M  55:12  

So you do have an element that looks at Trump and an element that looks at Biden and pulls on both of their charts as well.

Brady Waller  55:20  

Yeah, I guess I should say what the five weeks are. So the first week we’re trying to establish what the USA chart is, and when this podcast comes out, I think if I have the time, right, that’ll already have happened. So we’ll just be establishing what chart Are we going to use as the birth chart of the US because there’s really a lot of different options. Everything back to the first time that somebody landed on what is now the United States soil up to is it sometime on July 4, and what time during the day, or is it something after July 4, because technically, we’re not a country yet. Anyway, the second class Then looks at history and we will specifically be focusing on major moments of conflict and what brought about that conflict awesome often or major moments of change. So specifically kind of highlighting wrote the Civil War and World War One and World War Two and then some of the more more recent events like 911. The third class, which should be the first one that people can actually attend after the podcast comes out, is going to be on the next decade and looking at the 2020s The United States has a Pluto return. It has a Neptune opposition, it has a Uranus return. There’s a lot going on. And so we’ll be talking about that stuff and trying to make some predictions and also be looking backwards again because Uranus returns have been major moments in US history Neptune opposition’s have been major moments in US history. Pluto returns can be timed out in other countries. Looking at So we’ll be doing some of that work. And then yeah, the last two weeks will be bite in synastry with the US chart, and then Trump’s industry with the US chart. And specifically talking about how maybe in the last four years, some of the things that happened to Trump’s chart and how they happened to the US chart and maybe how, you know, trying to give some context for some of the reactions that he’s had.

Sheila M  57:23  

So interesting.

Brady Waller  57:24  

Yeah, it’s gonna be a lot of fun. But this is where like, the idea of astrology as a language comes in, because we’re basically just like talking about United States history, or United States possible future. But we’re using astrology as our language. We’re using astrology as our framework. So I’m really excited for that. I’ve been doing lots of research. I think it’s gonna be really fun, man. 

Sheila M  57:49  

I really wish that was a course when I was in school. I would have taken astro-history, you know?

Brady Waller  57:57  

Same. Yeah, that would have been Great. I mean, it’s funny because I still have tons of my like history High School Notes when I first started getting into astrology and I still have some of them. And so I’ve like looked back and gone through history books, a little hesitantly with astrology in mind, and it’s been really fun. I definitely Wish I got that.

Sheila M  58:19  

Seriously. I know, I feel like it would retain things better. Um, cool. I’m so excited for that. I think it’s gonna be really awesome. So I will put all of this in the show notes so that people can find you sign up for the classes. I know that the first two classes will have happened before this. Will they be recorded? Will they be available or anything? They will? Okay.

Brady Waller  58:42  

Yeah, so everything is going to be recorded and will be available. The whole series is donation based, and I’m just basically having people like sign up for a specific newsletter and I’m going to be sending out the links there and then posting them to my Instagram kind of day of so it’s not like there’s no paywall. There’s no barrier I just want people to be able to come and then after the fact, I’m going to have them up for donation sale, basically on my website. So you’ll be able to like watch all of them kind of after the fact because the Biden and Trump ones might not be super relevant in the next coming months. But I think the other ones will continue to be relevant moving forward. And so I definitely want to keep them available, and maybe add to them at some point. Absolutely continue to learn learn more, because what’s been really interesting is like, I had a plan going in of what chart I was going to use. And then the more research that I’ve done, the more I’m like, I don’t actually think that’s the chart anymore. But I’m not going to change my mind now because I’m carrying too deep. I’m in way too deep. But I’m going to talk about a lot you know, there’s going to be really interesting conversations. I don’t really think you can nail down a true birth chart for the US. But I think you can talk about which chart captures the identity of our country. The most Yeah. And that’s the chart that we’re going to be using. Because that’s what I think it’s the chart that speaks to most to like, what is the ideology of the United States? What is the people of the United States, not as individuals but as like, a community consciousness? Because I do think that the United States has some degree of consciousness. Yeah. And trying to find the right chart for that has been really fun. And like, there’s no I’m not an expert. I’m not claiming to know the exact chart, but it’s still been really fun to think about, and to kind of throw my hat into this conversation, because it’s been a conversation that’s been going on literally, since July 4, 1776. People debating about what the actual chart is.

Sheila M  1:00:46  

Yeah. And I think it’s really interesting too, because in in these because I have taken some of your classes. There’s such an opportunity to have conversation and community and I think it’s one of the things that people have been struggling with and quarantine and also looking for answers or comfort in terms of where we are headed and what’s going to happen and, and feeling that like real intense anxiety not just about the upcoming election and everything there but also about the health of America and like us pandemic and everything. So I think like, what you’re doing is really offering like this beautiful environment for people to connect and maybe suit some anxiety as well.

Brady Waller  1:01:29  

Yeah, I mean, I definitely the third class is kind of the most important one, because it’s the one where we’ll be looking forward. And I mean, to be totally candid, like it’s not a pretty picture over the next decade. It’s just not especially when you look at what’s happened historically, the Civil War can be was almost the exact same transits that we’re having a Uranus return and a Neptune return or Neptune opposition within a decade. Then World War Two is a Neptune return and a Uranus return within a decade. And so when you look at kind of the cycles that we’re completing again this year, and then you add in Pluto like, yeah, America’s gonna go through large scale change that we just have to put out in the open. I think what’s exciting and hopefully reassuring is that we know that we have this knowledge already we know America is going to go through large scale change, which means we get to be prepared to create that change. And that’s what’s so exciting about looking forward in astrology, at least in my opinion, is that it empowers us. It doesn’t become fatalistic, it doesn’t say our Pluto return is going to end America. It just says a Pluto return is a time of reckoning and rebirth. How do we want to be reborn? What do we want that to look like for our country? What do we want to reckon with? You know, I think we get to ask those questions and then bring them up and be a part of doing that. So that’s To me, that’s what’s the most exciting is that hopefully people come out of this class. And they think, well, this is the change that I want to see with these archetypal possibilities that are coming to us. Because I’m not really going to talk about exactly what I think will happen. I’m going to talk about what happened in the past, and what these energies are usually like, and kind of give everyone the opportunity to take that as as they want to take it.

Sheila M  1:03:24  

Yeah. And I think that’s part of the reason why I’ve connected with your work a lot is because I come from the same perspective of really not wanting to just hand everybody the answers, but to empower people with information so that they can make their best choices rather than, like disempowering them. 

Brady Waller  1:03:41  

For sure. I mean, there’s no, I’m not psychic, I make no claims to have any more knowledge or any more ability to perceive things than anybody else. I just have spent a lot of time reading and researching and doing this stuff and so I think You know, like, it’s not like, I have some all knowing answer that I can give somebody like I just, I speak this language and I’m going to try to translate it to you. And I hope that what my translation offers is something that you can take and you can work with. Yeah, I feel like that’s kind of the center of my practice is just like wanting to be a translator, basically.

Sheila M  1:04:24  

Yeah, I love that. I love that. So where can people find you online? I guess, pretty much just online at this point. for the foreseeable future, how can they find you? How can they connect with you?

Brady Waller  1:04:38  

Yeah, so my Instagram is @themythiclandscape. And that’s pretty much where everything is centralized. You’ll be able to get everywhere else from there. I do have a website that’s just www dot the mythic landscape calm and I have a Patreon that you can find either on my website or on my Instagram, that links right there. The Patreon is really fun. I’ll just shout that out. There’s a bunch of cool stuff there. You get weekly or monthly Tarot deep dives, you get reflections on zodiac sign changes, you can get community readings, you can get mailed readings. There’s a mentorship program, there’s a monthly kind of one on one we work together in a container program. Like there’s a lot of fun stuff there that I’m really excited about doing. So we’d love to have some more people to hang out with and play around with. If we ever do go back in person, I work with the prana house in Westchester. So if you’re out in Chester County, you should come to the penthouse. And if you’re in Philly, and specifically West Philly, I, pre COVID had been offering readings at transfiguration hair studio, so I just want to give them a shout out there. I’m not doing readings in person there but they’re cutting hair and doing really awesome majiggy clear comp work. So if you’re in West Philly, you should go get your hair cut there. Because they’re lovely, 

Sheila M  1:06:00  

I love it. Thank you so much for taking the time today. This was really, really wonderful. And I knew it would be but it was it was even better than I thought it would be. So thank you so much for being here, Brady. 

Brady Waller  1:06:12  

Thank you for having me on. This was so fun. Yeah, I had I had a great time. I love talking about astrology and intuition and all this good stuff.

Sheila M  1:06:21  

Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you loved today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me at @Starsagespirit and let me know what you learned , what surprised you, and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episode show notes, you can head over to

Navigating Relationships with the Tarot

Relationship Tarot with Sheila Masterson

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For episode 7 of Living Tarot, I dive into one of the most popular types of readings I do, relationship and love tarot readings.   We all know that when it comes to matters of the heart we can all be extra sensitive.

  • I discuss some of the hangups that people have about asking for relationship advice in a tarot reading.
  • I also talk about how important it is to normalize reading tarot to look into your love life, and how it can offer valuable perspectives on your motivations and your partners, and how to get clear action steps and problem solving insights.
  • Relationships are complex and that’s why I also discuss a variety of ways to ask questions and how to approach a reading to deepen your connection and more towards understanding – which goes above and beyond just romantic relationships.
  • I also give some pointers on asking about your love life if you are looking for love.

Connect with Sheila:

Book a Tarot or Reiki session at or find her on Instagram

Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure, and embodied the Tarot along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing,  empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the Tarot.

Welcome back to living Tarot. Today we’re going to talk about relationship Tarot. So probably how most people think about the Tarot, Especially people who are looking at references in pop culture and society at large. It is probably the it’s probably very close to number one in my business is probably kind of split between career and relationship Tarot. There are so many things you can read on obviously, but those are kind of the two heavy hitters for me. So we’re going to talk about situations that you may want to use Tarot to help give you some insight in relationships. And this isn’t just romantic relationships. This is true of all relationships. I will be speaking today more through the lens of romantic relationships, but consider this to be true for all relationships, anything that I’m talking about today. So we’ll look at some of the common types of readings that I do. And give you some new ideas maybe about how you can use Tarot to get insight into your own relationships. So here we go. So again, like we talked about in the last episode, when we talked about career Tarot, again, relationship Tarot can really help hold up a mirror to your relationships and also to your responsibility and your habits in relationships. It can show you how your past trauma so that 10 of Swords type of energy can show up in all different types of relationships in your life, but especially in romantic relationships and how we can start to notice how we are triggered or otherwise activated in our relationships and how we can start to take responsibility for that and improve the quality of our connection and our understanding of both ourselves and the other person. So

Unknown Speaker  3:10  

the first thing that relationship Taro can really help us do is separate emotion from reality, which is a little bit about what we’re talking about here. So feelings are not facts. That’s a big, you know, Instagram meme that I see a lot, but it is true. And it can feel very true and especially for people who do really struggle with trauma, especially childhood trauma, or trauma around the way that they received love from a young age or the way that they were exposed to romantic love, whether that is through their parents relationship or through relationships that they saw. on display growing up, but it can really form our long term opinion about our expectations and relationships, our expectations to be let down or for people to meet a certain standard that may or may not be possible, and what Taro can really do and a common reading that I do is one that really offers a lot of reflections. So what do I think is true? or What am I afraid is true, versus what is actually true. And these are important questions to ask because especially with something that is so full of emotion and so full of vulnerability, it is really hard for us to get out of our own heads often when it comes to romantic relationships especially and so with a reflection type spread, you can really start to compare where a lot of your fear and anxiety might come up in the relationship against what is actually true and what is actually happening. Because what I’ve seen over and over and doing this type of reading is that what we invent in our heads is never as bad as what is actually true in reality very, very rarely is that the case and normally, we kind of let our imagination run away with us and really fall into this trap of of catastrophizing at times and, and thinking that things are really, really wrong. And on the other side of things sometimes, especially when we’ve invested a lot of time and energy in a relationship, we can think it is, it is worth You know, there is kind of this, this fallacy. I’ve already invested this as much time and therefore, I should continue to invest time, I should continue to invest energy, if I just wait a little bit longer, this person will come around. If I just give it a little bit more energy, this person will finally see. And that’s not always the case and the other. The other aspect of this type of reading is it will really confront us with what’s true. So if we are on the other side of the spectrum, and we are extending the benefit of the doubt to somebody who maybe is not really deserving of it or is not really interested in it, it can really help us to confront that and to gain some clarity around what is really going on and where our blind spot might be in the relationship. And so that can be that is probably one of the more potent readings that I do personally in my own life and Also one of the readings that seems to have a really profound effect on clients as well, and can be really emotional and really, really heavy to sort through but also extremely clarifying. And one of the things that I speak about, in my course Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives is the fact that when we come to a reading, especially when we’re reading for ourselves, always be ready to hear a know or always be ready to hear that what you are hoping is going to happen is not going to happen. And if you aren’t ready to hear that know yet, if you aren’t ready to hear that things aren’t going to go your way then don’t ask the question yet. 

Sheila M  7:49  

Because if we, if we ask before we’re ready, because we really just want to have the answer. It can cause us to stop Taj and, and to, to kind of create this almost like a, like a hissy fit, you know, where we’re like, I’m not, I’m not doing this, I’m not recognizing that this is happening and I, I speak very much from my own personal experience when I say this and also from my experience of doing, you know, thousands of readings for other people and really seeing this displayed because so often we can fall into the trap of thinking that just because we want something to be true that it that it is and this type of spread can be very confronting. But it also saves us a lot of time and a lot of energy that we might be expending that maybe is not really being appreciated and not really being accepted and not really being reciprocated. And so it can really, it can really force us to have some honest conversations with ourselves.

Hey there, I want you to be the first to know that I am offering a free training Tarot for Real Life – Get your shit together with the Tarot on Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 12pm eastern time, this workshop is extremely powerful. It talks about the top mistakes that new Tarot readers make, will cover the neuroscience of Tarot and how it can stop the anxiety cycle, and the exact steps to follow to start reading effectively and efficiently for yourself. This is where the spirituality of the Tarot meets real life situations. And my goal is to have you leave that workshop, either with a reboot to your tarot reading or if you’re a brand new beginner with a good idea of how to get started. So you can sign up for that free workshop in the show notes today, or if you already know that you are really interested in signing up for a tarot course, I will be opening the doors for my Tarot course for the last time for 2020 the course is called Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. It is a seven week Tarot course that takes you from a brand new beginner to tarot reading Pro, and helps you learn how to bring that practice into real life, how to use the Tarot to help you make complex decision effortlessly. So if that sounds good to you, you can sign up for the waitlist in the show notes today. 

So along with that, you can also use these, the spread that will help you to kind of ground you in where the relationship is at the moment. So it’s kind of like a mirror of the relationship. What you bring in what kind of energy you bring how you show up in the relationship, how your partner shows up in the relationship? What dynamic is present at the moment? What dynamic is are you kind of evolving into you can also in the same mirror spread, you can also see what might be kind of like slightly underneath the surface and the relationship that maybe needs a little bit of attention and discussion, what maybe needs to rise up a little bit, but maybe also you need to let cool so sometimes we are, we are so obsessed with with solving the problem in our relationship and fixing everything that we need to kind of step back and allow things to cool down a little bit before we can actually fix anything. And so it will also hold the mirror up and let you know if you need a little bit of space in order to do that which can be really lovely. And then from there can also provide you with action steps to start to move forward. So not just to, not just to, okay, go home and break up with this person, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m saying things more like, hey, it looks like you are holding your emotions in because you’re afraid of what their reaction will be like. And I think what you really need to do is actually express some of that stuff. Or maybe you do need to lose your cool a little bit. Maybe your partner feels like you don’t care and and they’re looking to see some sort of emotion or maybe your partner is extremely emotional, and you’re just not really recognizing them or meeting them where they are and they’re looking to see a little bit more vulnerability, or it can show you things about the dynamics of their relationship. So I’m seeing you As the king of cups, it looks like you always have to be the one leading and being vulnerable first in order to get that kind of that kind of reaction and reciprocation out of your partner. Maybe for you, that’s no problem. Or maybe it’s a huge problem. And and you never know how these things are going to play out for people. And so with this mirror type of spread, it can offer you just a real opportunity to get an outside kind of an outside perspective that can really clarify where you both stand in the relationship and how you can start to take some actionable steps to move forward to either come back into harmony to maybe sometimes create some some ripples to see you know, what might be just below the surface that needs to rise. up, and what maybe you need to either decide to let go of and move on from, or what you maybe can’t let go of and move on from and will really will really help you see all of that reflected. And so those are kind of two of like the major, major spreads that I use with people. But I also do when it comes to relationship readings, a lot of a lot of channeling and those type of readings. And also, people tend to come in with a lot of questions. And I did want to talk about the dynamic of this a little bit too, because I also do a lot of like free question sessions where, where people will just kind of come in and they’ll ask things and I’ll pull cards or a couple cards, and then just kind of go from there as well. But one of the things that I really wanted to talk to when it comes to relationship Tarot is the fact That I really want to normalize this. I do experience this thing through years of reading now where people will come in for a reading and say like, oh, like just something more general or I’m just kind of you know, interested to see what comes up and and you know, I might touch on some things I might say some things about the relationship.

And then like towards the very end of the reading, they’ll be like, oh, but like, could you just like, see like, what’s going on in my relationship? And and people there’s always like this like embarrassment around it or like, a little bit of like humiliation. About Can I really ask this or is this like corny? It is, it is absolutely. Absolutely appropriate to ask about your love life. I really want to normalize this. I think it is. It is so normal. It is a huge part of our lives. And asking about relationships is is a huge, huge part of our long term happiness in life. And, and, you know, not to say that everybody needs to be in a relationship by no means but like, when what I experienced is people having like some embarrassment or some shyness about really being open and and honest about what they really want in those sessions and I, I think it’s very, it’s very interesting but I also think that there’s nothing wrong with it. And so I really want to normalize that and to encourage you that if you have questions like that, please come in and ask them Don’t Don’t you know, don’t make don’t make your reader guess at what’s going on. And and really, if you if you have something like that, that you’re looking for clarity on ask for it because it can really help direct the reader to to watch You really need to focus on at that moment. So along with that, I also want to say that I another thing that can happen a lot, and especially when it comes to relationship readings, is emotion. I mean, there’s there’s inherently a lot of emotion tied up in this. A lot of self worth a lot of trauma sometimes. And so, another thing I want to say just kind of off the cuff is that it’s also extremely normal to have an emotional response in a session. I have experienced a lot of people who cry or who become really emotional while we’re working together and they always apologize and I just want to say you do not need to To apologize for your feelings to anyone, but especially to a reader. We are we are used to holding space for you to have an experience. And especially for me if you come in with to a session with me, I fully expect that we will be working with deep emotional things, and that it’s completely normal for you to have an emotional reaction to them. And that you should also normalize it for yourself that when you are confronting these things that can be really overwhelming sometimes and really heart wrenching that it is okay to have that kind of reaction. Even if you’re not used to having it in front of people. I guarantee that whoever your reader is, sees the light and it is completely normal and nothing out of the ordinary test at all. No need to apologize. And so I did want to say that as well. And then finally, the third type of reading that I do that can be really, really potent and really helpful is kind of a what’s what’s ahead or you know, what, what does my ideal partner look like? What’s kind of coming up in in my love life over the next few months, so kind of more. And I don’t really consider myself a predictive reader. I am definitely I identify a psychic even though I don’t really like that word, and I don’t really think it works in the way people think that it does.

But I do readings where I look at what kind of energy you’re going to be working with in your love life over the next few months, sometimes over the next year. And again, similar to what I talked about in the career episode, can really give you some ideas about the trajectory, maybe what still needs to be healed a bit, where you could consider putting yourself out there a little bit more, and what resources you really have to call on to help you navigate the challenges and really see and find the partner who is going to bring the most joy and satisfaction into your life. And so, those readings are a little bit more about kind of future gazing type of things, but they’re not. It’s not really meant to be Oh, in June, you’re gonna meet this person. Occasionally, something like that will come up, but it’s more along the lines of I really see you You know, Sometimes we’re moving out of a breakup. So I might see you kind of transitioning out of that over a couple months. And often what I see in this type of work is the cycles that we’re working within. So a lot of our progress is cyclical, where we might feel like we’re moving forward and then feel like we took a step backwards. And then we feel like we’re moving forward again. And then maybe we take a small step backwards. And so I see this a lot, especially with these kind of relationship trajectory, type of readings, is really giving you the peace of mind that not all of your progress in terms of choosing partners and connecting with your partner and really feeling that understanding for yourself and really being able to advocate for yourself in relationships. Not all of that is linear. And just hearing that hearing what some of these cycles can look like, can be extremely, extremely valid. are dating for people who are going through a lot of turmoil or are holding themselves to like a state of perfection or, or of timing that they’ve kind of invented in their head that maybe is not in alignment with how things are going in their lives and can create this friction. And so I do a lot of readings like that, where we’re kind of looking at the cycles of what kind of relationship energy you’re going to be dealing with over the year. And so if you practice these things for yourself, these might be some new ideas for you. You might already be doing some of them. You might be looking for more insight on how to intuitively read off of that because all of these are kind of baselines of where I start in a reading and because I do have that intuitive connection, I will then sometimes get an extra question here, or I think there’s something else I need to draw another card there. And I do encourage you, especially when it comes to readings like this that are so incredibly personal, to give yourself the opportunity to stray from any spreads that you might have, any book that you might have, to really sit down and intuitively connect and really feel it and really understand and have that compassion for yourself. So I think that can be extremely helpful. And if you are interested in getting a reading or some outside advice on your relationship or anything else, you can always find my availability for Tarot sessions or Reiki sessions. Over on my website, and right now I have openings for September and October. And if you’re interested in learning more for yourself my course Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives is currently open for enrollment, or will be opening very soon. So you can get on the waitlist for that through the show notes today. I would love to have you. I talk a lot about relationship Tarot in the course and also about how to read intuitively and to start to kind of create intuitive spreads based on what you’re trying to get to the bottom of whether it’s in your career or in your relationship in that course. So I would love to have you and as always, if you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to me at and I will be right back here with another episode very soon. Bye for now.

Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you loved today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me at @Starsagespirit and let me know what you learned, what surprised you and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episodes show notes you can head over to

Practical Spellcraft & Embodying the High Priestess with Winifred Costello

Winifred Costello

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In Episode 6 of Living Tarot, I speak with Winifred Tanetta-Costello, Visionary Healer, Reiki Master Teacher, Tarot Reader, Mentor and Witch. She is the founder and facilitator of The Witching Well, an online magickal community for earth-centered seekers who are ready to grow their spiritual practice in meaningful, tangible and accessible ways. Winifred and I discuss how embodiment brings magick into reality and how Winifred embodies the High Priestess.

  • Winifred shares how she “decided” to be a witch and what becoming a witch really looked like – from playing “witch” with neighborhood kids to running her own Magickal community.
  • She discusses how intuition led her both to open her brick and mortar store, Awentree, and how it also ultimately led her to release that physical space this year.
  • The importance of teaching from a place of compassion and humility when connecting other with their own intuition.
  • We discuss the challenges around listening deeply to intuition, and how knowing something is right for you, and intuitively guided, doesn’t always mean that it’s easy.

Connect with Sheila:

Book a Tarot or Reiki session at or find her on Instagram

Connect with Winifred: or

Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure and embodied the Tarot along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing., Empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the Tarot. 


Welcome back to Living Tarot. Today on the podcast I am hosting my wonderful friend Winifred Costello. Winifred is a visionary healer, Reiki Master Teacher, tarot reader, mentor and witch. She’s the founder and facilitator of The Witching Well, an online magical community for Earth centered seekers who are ready to grow their spiritual practice in meaningful, tangible and accessible ways. She also founded Awentree, originally a brick and mortar witch shop in 2006, and recently transitioned her store to be fully online. She views witching as a mystical path, and craft that facilitates deep healing and transformation through direct encounter and embodiment practices. Winifred identifies as an earth which she has experience and training and Goddess traditions, Old World witchcraft, fairy seership folk magic and Tarot. She’s a national guild certified hypnotherapist, past life regression facilitator,  and currently studying neuro linguistic programming. Winifred is an avid outdoors person actively hiking, backpacking, camping and organic gardening. She lives with her husband, dog and two cats in western Massachusetts. Winifredis a friend of mine, from a business group that her and I were both in this past year, we got to know each other online, really loved talking about Tarot and business. And in this interview today, we really talk about how she’s kind of worked through different, different stages of her life and how the Tarot has kind of come into play through different experiences, and how she brings a lot of that embodiment practice into her daily life, what her intuition looks like, and how she really embodies the High Priestess card. So I hope you enjoy this week’s episode. Let’s dive right in.


I am So excited to have you here with us today when a friend so let’s just start off by telling us who you are what you do what you bring to this world. 


Winifred Costello  3:09  

Awesome. Hi Sheila. I’m excited to be here as well thank you for the opportunity to talk about nerd out on all kinds of spiritual Tarot stuff that I’m super nerd about that stuff I’m very passionate about. And she wants to know what what do I do in the world? Yeah, so I am. My biggest thing is about being very public and out of the broom causes closet hopping out of the broom closet around what it means to practice an earth centered spiritual tradition. I in particular, do identify as a witch, although a lot of folks that I find in me that practice these traditions, maybe don’t use that word that’s maybe not a word that works for them personally. So whether someone’s pagan, Wiccan, a witch, I’m just really looking for a spiritual path that feels accessible and relevant in really speaks to their soul. And is recognizes the earth is sacred and cycles of the seasons and the moon and the shifting tides. I’m very much driven to provide real tangible information, hands on skills, Authenticity, like support them and empowering them and embracing their spiritual agency around that. I’ve been called to this work since very young and it was all the some mentors on my journey that really empowered me and I know for a fact that mentors I met when I was younger, I’m really I was very much seeking healing in a very active way through my 20s. And the healers and mentors I met, like literally directly impacted my life by empowering me and my life, like very much in a very positive and different direction than it would have if I had not met them and gotten to know them and work with them. So I kind of see I’m passionate about making pagan paganism and witchcraft. accessible and helping stop the misinformation that’s out about around those traditions, but also about empowering people to be able to reclaim their personal power and step into their healing and embrace the personal growth and transformation much as my mentors helped me do that.


Sheila M  5:15  

That’s awesome. I love the way you said that too. And because I think that often when people hear witch or witchcraft, they go to a very specific place where, you know, they see you know, the Wicked Witch of the West from the Wizard of Oz and have this idea or, or Salem, you know, and I love how you talked about kind of taking apart some of the mythology and stuff that is around that and some of the negative connotations and also even within the industry, trying to make things more accessible and more personal for people, because I think that’s so important. So I know that that was kind of brought about by by your own journey. And your own mentors along the way. Tell us a little bit about like baby witch Winifred like, what were you like what kind of got you into all of this?


Winifred Costello  6:10  

I love this question I get asked it a lot. So I usually start with like, like most folks who come to these traditions like practicing witchcraft and paganism at an earlier age. So I got into this stuff is like for sure. I was definitely aware of what it was to be pagan and choosing to be pagan. By the time I was like in ninth grade. But prior to that, I was definitely an unusual kid. Like most people start off. And I had some pretty interesting experiences and encounters, mostly with a very intense dream life. I used to have very, very intense dreams. I used to call them visitations. And was this not unusual kid. I was just like, you know, trees were my friends. I did things different than other kids. And somehow in elementary school, I I got in my head this idea of like that I’m gonna be a witch. I have no idea. We didn’t really watch a lot of TV. I’m a 70s kid. There was some witchy stuff out there on the in TV Land. But we didn’t really watch like we our our TV was very controlled back in the 70s like you watch Saturday morning cartoons and I think mutual Omaha the animal show on Sunday night or something. So it’s not like I remember seeing something on TV necessarily. And this is before the internet before video games. I don’t know where this idea that being a which was something one could be but it popped into my brain. It definitely bought like fifth and sixth grade. And I remember this one summer where I decided I was going to be a witch we really had no idea what I was doing, which is really it’s very sweet and lovely. But the the truth of it was that it was very much through nature. And my my idea around witching was that it was about being outside and plants and nature in the moon and So I was compelled to make my little neighborhood friends play a game I called witch with me.


Sheila M  8:09  

This is amazing.


Winifred Costello  8:10  

And the really funny thing is that, so I grew up something called unchurched. So my parents were really, they’re really neat, unique people. So in one sense, they had conservative politics, but in the spiritual sense, they were super progressive way ahead of their time. So my mom is Irish. My dad is Italian. It’s I call it the Boston mix. And it’s the Boston I love it. And so they made a conscious choice when they would marry not to practice a religion, which in the when you consider They married in the 50s. That’s really progressive. Um, anyway, yeah. So we were raised not in any religion. And I didn’t step foot in a church until I went to a wedding like in my teen years, so but we weren’t raised without A sense of spiritual spirituality. But we were, I was really encouraged to have a very independent approach. And my mom used to my mom was really unusual, like, I look back on her life. And so she never referred to God as God, he she only referred to him as the good Lord. And she was very adamant that if you wanted to connect, right, you wanted to connect with God that you went outside in the backyard to the tree and talked to the tree. And that’s how you talked to the good Lord. So I always tell people like is it kind of curious that the, I ended up being sort of drawn to nature as representing divinity. You know, so a lot of interesting things sort of kind of contributed to that. But my neighborhood friends, like I was the only kid that did back in the 70s. Everybody in the town I grew up, you went to church or you going to synagogue, nobody didn’t do one or the other. I was like, literally the only kid. It kind of ended up meaning that I was pretty isolated. And I didn’t have a lot of friends because a lot of parents would let their kids play with me when they realized we didn’t belong to any church. thought that that was very odd. So I, it’s really weird, but this is like a suburb of Boston and like I was born in the late 60s, I believe it is, um, you know, so there was this one neighborhood family that allowed they were very devout Catholic, Irish Catholic, and they allowed their kids to play with me, but they were always proselytizing to me. They saw me as like the little uncouth even child, because I remember being like schooled by them on because I didn’t know anything like they like I didn’t I didn’t know anything like, like I was raised in a very secular spiritual, the Earth is the spirit, your spirit or your spirituality. We live so. Um, yeah, so I had a really unusual start. It just sort of organically fed me into aligning as a pagan later as a teenager.


Sheila M  10:48  

Yeah, it’s, it’s so fascinating to me because my experience was so opposite. Like I was raised, very Catholic and very conservative I didn’t even meet anybody. I mean, I’m sure I met somebody at some point. But like, I didn’t have friends who weren’t Catholic until high school. Like I didn’t even I didn’t even have awareness. Really. I knew other religions existed. Obviously, Jesus was Jewish. So, um, so I knew something about that, but but I didn’t have like a different experience. Other than that, until I was like in high school and college. And so, I had kind of like, the opposite experience, which I think was isolating in like, a different way because I always felt like two different people because I didn’t connect. I didn’t connect with like, the religion that I was brought up in, even though my family like, we would leave church and I would look at my parents and like, they clearly got something out of it. Like they felt the way that I feel about the work that I do now. So I’m like you, you know what I mean. But like, I thought I was the weird one, because I just wasn’t I didn’t get it, you know. And so I always felt very divided like I was that person and also, you know, from the time I was really young I got all of these impulses and stuff and didn’t know what was going on. Like I was reading people without realizing that I was reading people and and i would say i was like listening to the air to hear who is going to come upstairs next to my house, but I was literally hearing energy. Right And so, so it’s very interesting to hear about the complete opposite experience. And I didn’t have any real awareness about excuse me about witches in general. until probably like when the craft came out, which I don’t know what year it was, but I think I was in like, eighth grade or ninth grade or something and like, then we all want it to be witches like so bad and then it was like, being a witch like had like a moment, but it’s very interesting to me to hear about like a background Where you weren’t kind of you were left kind of open and available to whatever want it to come in for you. So I think like, kudos to your parents, first of all, because I think that requires a great release of control. 


Winifred Costello  13:14  

Right? Well, it’s, it’s really ironic because in other ways my, you know, my parents were very sheltering and they My mother was very conservative and her political views we did not see eye to eye, we actually butt heads a lot. But she raised me to be a very independent thinker. That was something that was really important to her. And she raised me based on my father and her had encountered things that didn’t really make them feel really great about the church, and each in their own different respects. And so they, but they were spiritual people. So they felt like it was most important for one to have a direct relationship with divinity and then it’s really just instilled that in me and then I think I also had as a very young Girl I was very connected to animals. I had a really, really deep we had, you know, we always had pets, we had a dog. I always had a deep relationship with animals. And I’m just I would I would find myself at a young age arguing with people about animals have been sent in and having a soul. And like I said, I was definitely odd, like people thought I was a strange kid. And I remember when I was in high school, and I had, like I said, Everyone went to most people went to church or synagogue. So I had some friends that were very in very devout families. And so they were really disconcerted by the fact that I identified as pagan. So there was a I went through this time period when they tried to convert me to be Christian. And my question was always, do you believe animals have souls or sentience, and it was something that was just how I felt about things and when I would hear the responses from, you know, what Christian leaders are pastors or preachers, it just didn’t jive with me and then a couple of them brought me that like, in High School couple friends brought me I went to two Christian services because they felt like I couldn’t decide to be pagan if I’d never been Christian before, which is like as an adult is really strange. That’s a strange idea. Um, so I was like, okay, and I went to these two different church services. And after they were all very curious as you I felt anything, and I said, it seemed very nice, and the people are very friendly, but much like what you’re saying. I said, but beyond Ruby, I appreciate everyone’s very friendly and welcoming, but no, nothing really lit up in there for me. And then I would ask the animal soul sentience question and I’d be okay. I’m out. Like,


Sheila M  15:33  

yeah, yeah, I think I’m one of the things that I see kind of over and over with. A lot of a lot of my guests on this show. And a lot of my friends who do spiritual work is that sense of a greater sense of autonomy. I think then other people had like, okay, like, that just doesn’t work for me. You know, like, I’m gonna go in this slightly different direction


Winifred Costello  15:59  

right now. No, I was grown up, okay, many years forward in my spiritual path. I understand that I somehow organically as a child as a teenager, I was an animist, but I didn’t have that word or the vocabulary when I was young, but I knew that that’s what I was seeking. Like, I was seeking to find a path of spiritual practice that aligned with my just how I felt about the world, which was like an animus worldview. And I, like I said, it wasn’t much older than I even heard that term. And but when I heard it, I was like, Yes, that’s it. Exactly. Yeah.


Sheila M  16:31  

So you kind of got on this path from an early age, you had mentors that helped you and helped you develop your practices and everything. And then you recently decided to close your physical location of your metaphysical store Awentree. And I know I kind of listened to your whole I listened to another podcast before we met personally. He talks about like, how much love and care like went into the design of the store from putting crystals in the wall and, and just like a true labor of love and a very intentional setup to the store and everything. And what inspired you to really want to open the store in the first place? This is kind of a, I know a long story question, What inspired you to want to open the store in the first place? And then what inspired you to like kind of release and let go of something that had been such a huge labor of love? Like, how was that kind of guided by your intuition or spirit?


Winifred Costello  17:36  

Um, so it’s a great question. And I say lots of words. Let me see if I can be succinct. So I met the woman who became my Reiki Master Teacher, my Reiki Master Teacher, she had a beautiful spiritual and spiritual inspired magical shop, New Age metaphysical witchy shop in a town nearby and I met her Her in my mid 20s and she’s in my Reiki training with her I learned a fair bit a fair amount of astrology training with her and most importantly she really helped me step into my power my first like claim my power and my healing stand in my truth like claim my voice and stand in that the truth of it. And she really helped me get out of my own way as a tarot reader, Tarot teacher, as a healer, she she really did everything from personal empowerment like really about like, how can like she was an amazing mentor and her greatest gift she’s still around She’s a friend of mine. Like we call each other cosmic soul sisters so I was always as a mentor, she was never let above you. She was always like, you too can do this. You can do this too, was always like what’s possible for you like, like, I would have a lot of admiration for her. And I easily could have put her on a pedestal but she was very much Nope, this is possible for you to and that was really tremendous. And she had a store and when I met Her went into her store, I went there actually, to get my Natal Astrology chart read. I was working with another healer at the time who recommended a reading with her. And the second I walked into the store, I was telling people, I just knew something clicked. So I always had this idea that there could be some sort of work other than that, what I would call mainstream work, but I’d never really seen anyone doing it. So I couldn’t even describe what it was I knew I was meant to do, because I hadn’t actually seen anyone doing it, but I knew I would know when I thought it’s like a very strange kind of mystical paradox. So I walked into her store and I met her and the second we met, I was like, like, this is like a new a new It was like a new car. So like I knew our souls, had a contract to me, that she like would be an important influence in my life. And I was very directly inspired by her in her store. And I always used to tell her would one day when you retire, that’s going to be my time to open my store. And she would always be very sweet. She’s like, if you have a vision, just go ahead and do it. You know, don’t don’t wait on me and I was like, No, that’s just I just know intuitively that’s the timing. And you know, fast forward 10 it was like 10-12 years later before I actually opened and created an open entry. From that moment it was maybe it was like 12 or 13 years later was the right moment arrive. I always saw a tree is a great like the daughter of the granddaughter of her store Apogee that’s not her store close to now. And I really wanted to create a hub like I really wanted to create an oasis where seekers could gather where witches could gather pagans, spiritual folks, mystic seekers could gather and it was in and it was like, okay, it was okay to come in and say, I have these intense dreams and then they they come true or they’re, or they my soul speaking to me my dreams or I have these intense psychic moments or healing, or I feel drawn to, you know, practice witchcraft are all the things that kind of go with all the All of what it is to practice an alternative spiritual path or alternative living where you’re more about listening to the earth and listening to others. I really wanted to create an oasis, a space of inspiration and access, like a almost like a resource. Yes, it’s a it was a business. So you know, like, you know, for business, you got to bring money in to stay afloat. It takes. I just tell people, it takes time, money, resources and energy to create a space like that.


But I really wanted to offer what, what what I had experienced when I met my mentor, but also I didn’t meet her tools in my mid 20s. And I started seeking in my teen years, and I felt very blessed. I even met my mentor. But I have wished I had met someone like that sooner. And so I also wanted to provide a space where people could get access to resources and teaching materials and spiritual supplies and healing and readings. Were the folks when I was a Taurus sun Scorpio rising, so we’ll kick it till it’s real. So I’m very much into like, like, let’s be unpregnant I’m a pragmatic earthy, which you know, like, let’s get real. Let’s not just like, I love this. I love Salem, who doesn’t love Salem? If you’ve been to Salem, Massachusetts, it’s it’s awesome. But there’s not this isn’t bashing on I know wonderful healers and readers in Salem that are amazing folks that do amazing work there. So this sounds like a weird generalization. I really don’t mean that cuz I know some amazing folks there. But um, I didn’t want it to only be like, the external part of what we see a lot of times depicted in witchcraft, like they’re really like now he’s seen on Instagram, like the curated picture I wanted. Yes, that’s very powerful and beautiful, who doesn’t aspire to that in their practice? But I know that that’s what where we start and I wanted something that was very real and raw and help people practice everyday magic in their life, right where they are right now with what they got. So that was what


Sheila M  22:55  

I love that so much. I love that you kind of drilled on that, because like you’re saying there’s there, there’s absolutely a time and a place for everything else. And like you said, just because people are reading there doesn’t mean that they’re not for real. But I think there’s kind of this kitchiness to that environment that leads to just kind of a surface level understanding of things and also because I know we’ve talked about it a lot because we are friends. Kind of bringing these things into everyday life and and a practicality to it that it doesn’t need to be like a whole big ceremony and like you can have respect and dignity in what you’re doing without it being like a perfectly timed and organized and resourced offering because not everybody has all of those resources.


Winifred Costello  23:51  

It’s true and I also a big thing and people stepping into these, like when we are claiming your own spiritual agency. It is on us on a lot of ways to claim that and I think what happens is we run into a lot of self worth issues, and permission issues. And so we get in our own way. And I think we can put a lot of excuses between ourselves our spiritual practice. And the more excuses like I don’t have the right tools, the right although the right clothes, the right timing, those things are wonderful. And when we can do those things, are we going to get bigger transformations and sure for sure that’s going to happen and there is a time and a place for them. But at the same time, there’s nothing more powerful than then reaching for your magic right where you are in the moment you’re in with what’s right around you like folk magic is a very powerful magic that’s I people I don’t really like low and high magic I like more like raw, like raw magic versus curated magic, more than low and high. That puts it is one of the things about how I practice witchcraft and paganism and all these kinds of things is also trying to pull the hierarchal energies out of it and habit me and become more circular because I think that these are like More Earth circular traditions and not that linear hierarchal states. So that’s another secret part of my mission, I guess are not so secret.


Sheila M  25:08  

Yeah, yeah. And I think especially important now, as like, accessibility is having more more of a moment I think in, in the spiritual world in general, and people are needing to be more accountable to the languages that have been kind of passed down from, from very, even though this has kind of been a more fringe thing. There’s still a lot of patriarchal and white supremacist things that do get mixed in. And I think it’s really interesting, like you’re saying about trying to teach in a way that is not hierarchical, because it happens a lot. And I and even in your description of your relationship with your teacher, how you always felt like, you were kind of on the same level and you were like learning together and she wasn’t trying to be like, I’m like, I’m in charge and I’m better you know, like it. No Yeah, I really like resourcing you well,


Winifred Costello  26:03  

Right? Like the guru the Guru is I call it the guru thing. And then like, um, yeah, so I just wanna say we’re always all unpacking like you know our like our baked in supremacy, white supremacy and patriarchy. That’s something we’re always working on to clear and heal and you know, deconstruct, but at the same time, I think my best all my best mentors didn’t do the guru thing. But I have and I have encountered witchcraft teachers that very much did the guru thing. And and New Age teachers and things like that, too. I mean, it can be anywhere. It’s not it can’t you have to keep an eye out. I think for that. pitfall. I once heard a great phrase, do not confuse your spirituality with egoism. I think it’s how it goes like and what is very important one knows the difference. My being spiritual right now or my being about ego, which I heard that line long, long time ago, not saying I always get it perfect. I’m a human I certainly have, I’m always still learning myself on how to better embody these things and how to unpack my own unconscious bias and baked in white supremacy and patriarchy, we always are faking that, like trying to take the encoded stuff out, you know, but yeah, yeah, definitely a resources now to help us do that work.


Sheila M  27:21  

Yeah. And I think that’s one of the things you know, it’s one of the things I always try to do, and I’ve always connected with teachers who do that as well, because even even my own experience with when I kind of started seeing and hearing spirits and stuff as an adult I did as a kid, but I kind of blocked it out and forgotten about it, you know, like a lot of people do. And then when I was really kind of going through my second awakening, so to speak, I was talking to my Reiki teacher about it, and he was very intentional about Like not doing the work for me, well, he knew what was going on before I knew what was going on. But he also respected the fact that I might not be ready to recognize that yet, and did not just say like, hey, you’re a medium like, this is gonna happen, you know, he kind of said it in a gentle way that I did not pick up on it. And then I came back to him and I was like, Hey, I think this is what’s happening. And he was like, Yes. And I was like, Well, why didn’t you just tell me and he was like, you know, you really it’s your path and you really need to be the one that decides and ultimately me telling you that you have an ability First of all, it doesn’t mean that you necessarily have to do . And second of all, doesn’t it kind of takes away your ability to really learn and and be participating in your own learning process. If I’m just telling you You are like labeling you, you know and I think that’s something that I really strive to do in my teaching and when I work with people is really teach them how personal it is. And even though because even with clients who come in I, I hear people say to me all the time like I can’t do what you can do and I’m like yes you like we all can everybody has this experience. 


Winifred Costello  29:23  

So it’s about empowering is what you’re saying and also to like not denying them their destiny, their own destiny of discovery around coming into like, you know, claiming their own skills I was telling you you have to be a spiritual detective. That’s what I tell my students be steered natural detective in your own journey. 


Sheila M  29:42  

I love that that’s that’s so perfect. Because I think that’s so true and, and so much of everybody wants like the answers like they want to skip to the end. But if you don’t, if you miss the middle part, then like, you don’t Know the why and you don’t have the same, like the same experience of the journey and you don’t have the same appreciation for it. And you feel doomed by your like initial judgment of the outcome. So rather than like understanding the why, through experience, you just kind of cut to the end and then you’re like, Okay, well, this isn’t what I wanted. And so the whole time, you’re just like, this isn’t what I want. This isn’t what I want. This isn’t what I want, instead of like, exploring and and being like, Well, what do I want? You know, and and figuring that out? Because I think it takes like you said it disempowers people if you just kind of like give them the answer,


Winifred Costello  30:39  

right, totally. And I always say to people, doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter how many candles you burn for a spell. If you haven’t done the work that needs the pre work or your homework or your soul work that needs to, like come before you. Like put that flame that match to the candle. The maybe you’ll get lucky and the candle spell will work but maybe you’ll just burn a bunch of candles and still be in the same place. Because you haven’t done the work that you the foundational work that really needs to happen. Because really when you finally ignite the candle in your candle spell that should be like the period at the end of the sentence should be backing up all the work you’ve done leading up to that moment, preparing to be ready to create real transformation in your life. And then the actual spell is like, kind of a combination of it. I mean, yeah, the spelling does the work, but you have got you can’t skip can’t skip that stuff. You’re talking about like those steps before and during and even after, you know?


Sheila M  31:32  

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 


Winifred Costello  31:34  

And so, I didn’t answer your other question. Yeah. Um, so um, alright, so I found it all entry. I actually found it with my which my best my best friend. We’re still best friends. Um, so we co founded the short stories. We co founded in 2006. We literally built the store from scratch, like literally, it was a raw space. We built the walls. That’s why as you were in the other interview, like You know, we ship crystals into the wall, we do symbols before we seal them up and painted. Like we hammered the nails, we paint, we help with the paint. The whole process on from the ground like inside is inside an old hundred year old brick building but from the inside from the ground up, we built it with our pants like this one crazy summer in 2006. And I bought her out when she moved away in 2009 to marry her husband and start a family. So I’ve been the sole proprietor since 2009. And then the store was has experienced incredible growth and been done many through many phases. It’s almost like a like a child. If you think back to who you were when you were a child to a teenager or to your 20s to 30s it’s almost like the store has I can see that the store has been on a similar journey of growth. And the last few years were like this, just unbelievably blessed there. Like it was just really an amazing time to be to be part of this. To be part of the town of very much in the early wave of the restoration of a really sad Street and that was the store was was a very magical process from our entry as a brick and mortar to the whole neighborhood to everything. And I love, love, love our entry, the brick and mortar at everything we built in did there. And at the same time, I started to outgrow the physical limitations that a brick and mortar inherently has, like you have a lot operations you have to be there. taking time off becomes complicated. There are a lot of other projects that have become like available for me to work on and do. And as much as I adore my store. It was no interesting. And it was incredibly successful in an interesting way. It was almost like a becoming like bigger than I could really do. I couldn’t do it all I couldn’t do all that the physical store required because the physical store was growing very busy even with team members and lean into my own personal projects. Like I I have an opportunity to write a book on Oracle deck I’ve helped create. I didn’t do the artwork I just helped create co create, like, what’s the system of the deck? And what’s the structure? And what kind of like how many cards and what will the cards be about. And I’m my bestie, who I co founded the store with. She’s an amazing visual artist. She’s the illustrator and the cards are completed. And the only reason we haven’t wanted that because I need to write a book. But what I was in like, which I’ve got 2000 words in on the guidebook, and there are other I’ve had invitations to teach him more and more locations and it was just starting to almost like it’s like I literally outgrew the store. I’m in the way it was like having the brick and mortar. And I was like straight I guess we would say like 120 20 strategizing with my team member like how could we support winter Fred continuing to grow and these other arenas and like, I’ve initially were thinking we would just grow heart my team member to be more and more like a manager of the space. So I could, you know, be a little more free from the physical day to day operations. But then along came COVID in, like, in COVID happened. And, um, and, you know, there’s, there’s just like, which is, you know, obviously COVID is a huge, not good thing. But there’s also no accident to the timing of things. And so I really think that, like the writing was on the wall that as much as I love everything about my brick and mortar, and I will always love it and cherish it, and I will miss it in that incarnation. I think it was time. I think it had long since become time for me to be willing to listen and open up to like, what, what’s next? What next possibilities could How can our country go forward in a different model that supported me in a better way? So I could say yes to these other really exciting projects that I’d like to say yes to you, but also still honor the mission of one I wanted the impact I wanted to make and why I opened the store in the first place. So when COVID happened, it forced to shut down like I’m in Massachusetts. So we had a more strict shutdown like than some other states had. So we had a profound shutdown. So the store was shut down profoundly for over two months. And I had to go 100% online. And the hidden blessing in the tragedy or the not awesomeness of COVID is those spirit in a weird way gave me an opportunity to step into another potential vision that kind of secretly go along with and wanting to, to create so when the building changed ownership, and it just kind of it just got live – spirit spirits always writes the writing on the wall for me.


Sheila M  36:48  

Oh, yeah, I can completely relate and we talked about this for a second before we started recording, but I tend to be the type of person that needs to be thrown like thrust forth into things by spirit, rather than somebody who can gracefully let go of things and just allow, and I really, really struggle with that tower card energy. So yeah,


Winifred Costello  37:08  

I always feel I’m a Taurus sun sign so I’m like, loyal to a fault. But in the end, I’m also a Scorpio. I’m a Scorpio rising, I have a lot of Scorpio in my chart. So in the end, when it’s time, like, I will hang on, I will hang on, like white knuckling something till it’s long past, like, long past time, like go, because that’s just my nature. But then, in the end, when the writing’s on the wall, and it’s in spirit, it’s like a neon sign just like there was a neon sign it was time to open and then there was just as loud and neon sign as it was time to let that physical location go. I wonder hasn’t gone anywhere but in the mission and the vision hasn’t gone anywhere, but just the location. But man, it was like, it was like Bang, bang, bang, like it was like a clue. My one teacher I know it calls it Kubrick’s like the spirit like throws a cubic right at your forehead. It became really clear SoI I closed the brick and mortar July 31 of this year just shy of its 14th anniversary.


Sheila M  38:10  

Hey there, I want you to be the first to know that I am offering a free training Tarot for Real Life – Get your Shit Together with the Tarot on Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 12pm eastern time, this workshop is extremely powerful. It talks about the top mistakes that new Tarot readers make, we will cover the neuroscience of Tarot and how it can stop the anxiety cycle, and the exact steps to follow to start reading effectively and efficiently for yourself. This is where the spirituality of the Tarot meets real life situations. And my goal is to have you leave that workshop, either with a reboot to your tarot reading or if you’re a brand new beginner With a good idea of how to get started, so you can sign up for that free workshop in the shownotes today or if you already know that you are really interested in signing up for a tarot course, I will be opening the doors for my Tarot course for the last time for 2020 the course is called Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. It is a seven week Tarot course that takes you from a brand new beginner to tarot reading Pro, and helps you learn how to bring that practice into real life, how to use the Tarot to help you make complex decisions effortlessly. So if that sounds good to you, you can sign up for the waitlist in the show notes today.


We really met like just before COVID kind of became big and then we’re both working through an incubator course together and during like the height of COVID and the anxiety and From the beginning, it’s funny because when you have like, a bunch of witchy people together I feel like everybody kind of starts to pick up on stuff. And what was funny is from the very beginning when you were talking about the store, I can’t even remember what you said the one day but I was like, she’s gonna close that store. Like, I could, I could just like feel it and I was like, it’s just time for that like transition, but again, from the outside, much easier to say than when you’re on the inside. Like you said white knuckling and being like, this is my baby. I created this, you know, right. 


Winifred Costello  40:33  

It’s hard but it’s my baby but it’s also that I very feel I’m very much feel like a priestess in service to the mission. Yeah, that is always been like the burning light. And it is not easy to own a brick and mortar. It is not. Hey folks, if you’re thinking of owning a brick and mortar, it is the most rewarding, awesome thing and hardest thing you’ll ever do. Especially once the internet it’s great. The internet is so amazing. It brings a lot of really opportunities that weren’t there before. But it does make it trickier to run a brick and mortar successfully for many years. And I weathered Lehman Brothers shortly after opening, so I have weathered a lot of things. And I and the mission is always what drove me I always felt like very much like a priestess in service to the mission. And so I didn’t want to turn my back on the integrity of the mission and that was a big reason why I wanted to be absolutely sure. It was the right decision. And so I was impressed on people it was not reactionary, it was very much responsive. And I I spent all of that locked down on many long five and seven mile walks and meditating and reflecting and pulling cards and I got readings from others and they all said the same thing. So I did and in my own inner voice, and I feel like the store I wondering has is very much his own higher soul and all the things I’ve weathered the store Always was like, nope, you’re meant to be here, hang in there, it’s gonna turn and then and it was. And I remember those days questioning, like, should I stick with it like with Lehman Brothers and some of those early days like, Oh my gosh, I keep the storage I keep the store. And, um, and spirit was always like, yeah, nope, keep the store keep the store. And that was really interesting because when the higher soul, the oversold our entry, the other spirits that live there and our support and service to the mission. When when the exec counsel, like all of a sudden that was a super clear, they’re like Stein is just time time to let it go. And I’m like, okay, we’re on. We’re going. Yeah, often very quickly. It happened, like within three weeks.


Sheila M  42:39  

Yeah. So let’s talk about that for a second because you’re in this huge transitional time now. And I’ve, you know, I’ve had the good fortune to be able to kind of witness you from the outside kind of going through this process, with, in my opinion, a lot of grace because I i understand that impulse to Like, I don’t like I don’t want to let it go, like I want to serve, serving everyone that I’ve been serving and I feel like this responsibility almost to have communities. So can you talk a little bit about kind of how your intuition has has played a part in that and also, how it shows up for you whether it’s like, you know, physical clairaudience, clairvoyance, whatever it is that like really kind of sets and I know for a lot of us, it’s multiple things, but, but kind of how do you know like, how did you know for sure, like you said, like, how did it become really clear?


Winifred Costello  43:37  

I think, well, I’m very kinesthetic. I’m very I am visual, very visual, and I do hear things. My husband always says, you know, that makes you sound crazy. And I’m like, Yes, but you know, a lot. So, this was very kinesthetic, though. Like I my strongest operating system for receiving information is kinesthetic, and I just felt it in everything. I just woke up and just felt it in every part of my body. Like I just felt they felt like it’s like it felt aligned. It just was like it was it was this almost like a calm came over me and I was like this I’m making the call and I’m in it and I didn’t feel alone and I didn’t feel I felt calm and that’s how I knew if it wasn’t the right decision, I would have a nagging or an anxiety or a spinning and it was it was just as calm and assured I just felt calm. And it’s a big decision. So how calm I was also as an indicator it was the right thing. And also for me, I have like a I would call like a spiritual court of allies that are I feel very blessed and grateful for that. And they stand I always call reference them as they stand behind me. Like and I call you might call them a committee or council but and then the store has its own spirits that kind of, like you know, operate to and they were just like in a big circle behind me. And, and they were just all very calm and supporting it was not you. It’s hard, a little hard to always articulate these kinds of things. But it was just clear like they were just they were like felt very unified. There wasn’t any one particular guide kind of going I don’t know about this, it was just like, a very unified, like, this is right, we got you. We’ve worked this is orchestrated, and then someone wants that to me recently as this was happening, it happens so like all the strange things that mitigating factors like the fact that the building changed hands like literally the pretty much the week Kovats, like right before a shutdown happen, and, and it wasn’t on the market. Like this was like a behind the scenes as an investor approached the owner, like the fact that happened like that, like the whole bunch of factors came together quickly. And my experience is always when, when you’re going one way and then a bunch of factors suddenly, almost like you’re blindsided, that’s not really the right word. But suddenly, like The car gets spun around and you’re clearly going into different like your, oh, I guess we’re going this way now and you’re calm and aligned and it feels totally right. You know spirits got like mother or mother fate or destiny has her finger like mother fate has their finger on the pulse of, of what is happening, and they’re in good hands. It’s kind of how I feel. Yeah. Does that make sense? 


Sheila M  46:21  

It does. It totally does. And actually, it reminded me of, so Gosh, what years, two years ago, I guess. November of 2018. I had I woke up one day and I never so this was back when I was at my corporate job and I was doing Tarot and and teaching yoga and Reiki on the side but I’ve kind of been going through this whole thing and again, once again, I felt like I was being two different people like I was being like, work business and nobody in my life really other than like my my partner really knew what was going on. Like I was coming to private about everything, even though I had clients and stuff, I wasn’t really fully being open with everything with my friends and people I was close to. Because again, I was worried that, like you said, everybody was going to think I was crazy. And and so I had this experience of, I almost never took a sick day, at my last company for seven years, almost never took a sick day. And I just woke up in the morning and I was like, I can’t, I can’t work today, and I work from home. Like I worked from home then too. And I was like, I can’t go in today. And that happened three days in a row. Like I just had this like I took three sick days, which like, like I said, I’m not taking a sick day and like seven years before that, and I was like, okay, like something is shifting. And it was like during those three days I did like a lot of meditation and a lot of yoga, a lot of going for walks like you said, and I just I had this like realization on the third day it was like, Yes, it’s time to go like it’s just Go, you need to make a plan. And that’s when like, that was literally when I made the plan. And it took me I think six months to actually do it. But I was like, Okay, this is when I think I need to make this move. And it was very similar. Like you’re saying it was like, it wasn’t. It was scary once I decided, but like, in that moment, it was like a call, like, yes, this, this is the right thing. And it just, it feels so obvious. It feels like the decision has already been made, which I think was something like you were articulating there too. And I think it’s so interesting that that’s how it felt to you. And I do want to stress to people that it’s not like, I decided and then I was like, Okay, great, like, everything’s fine. And I think the same for you like it’s still it’s very emotional. There’s second guessing there’s a lot of different things that come in, even when you are coming from a place of being very intuitively aligned with the right thing. It does not mean that it’s easy.


Winifred Costello  48:57  

Totally thank you for saying that. That’s really amazing. important stuff to point out. Because I think there are a lot of misconceptions. And, um, and Awentree has an online presence and has an online aspect to the business that has been growing. And it allows me to be able to reach more people and work with more people and to break free of the location based restrictions. And there are so many people seeking support around Earth centered spiritual traditions, and they may not live in the northeast, like where I am, they might be a lot of many of them live in areas where it’s dangerous to be out of the closet, or you could lose your job or, or other kinds of things. So like, I have always want like, like I said, I’m still being true to the mission of really providing that center in that oasis. Like, in many ways, it’s become more possible, like online because I can reach more people in locations where they don’t have maybe a progressive community or a local store or something like that. It just opens up It frees up. And it also frees me up to maybe go to other communities and have been requested to come in and teach and, and it just, it basically expands the container by by shifting the model, but I know but you’re right. Like it isn’t like, Oh, I just snap my fingers and I want like one does not walk away from a 14 year business that they built that was very successful, pre COVID. And it was it was hanging on through COVID. But it was clear that it was clear that this was creating the opportunity for me to step into the next thing that I really, for the last year or so have been really kind of percolating in my heart to do.


Sheila M  50:37  

Yeah, yeah. And I, I do think that’s really important because I think, you know, the doubt can come back in fear can come back in just the general kind of chaos of shifting into something else is, I think even when you do know that you’re on the right track and have that kind of, like you said spiritual team cheering you on and Still not always like a simple decision and not always like every day I wake up and I’m like, yeah, this is it like this is okay. Right.


Winifred Costello  51:09  

Well, and to your point, that’s a really good point. So I did also get readings with other folks. So I’m a reader. Can I read my own cards? Absolutely. Did I read my cards during that? Yes, I did. And it was saying the same thing as the readings I went and got with others. But I had one of my spiritual elders, read my cards. At the end, the one of the traditions I’m in, you get a reading at the start of the year. And it was really interesting because they didn’t even before COVID was even on anyone’s radar. And I can and it was really interesting, because they brought up the summer in July, and that there would be this like a blip on the radar was kind of because that that’s kind of how it came through. But that everything would be fine. Like, like I would have to make a decision that might seem frustrating and upsetting and causes stress, but that would be but it was the right thing. decision, I’d be fine on the other side of it, that actually, it would open up a lot of things that had not been able to be opened before. And then I got a reading when things were going down. And, and, you know, COVID the new owners and I knew that there was tension and I got a reading with another different another trusted mentor. And they had this they picked up on that they were saying the same thing. So you know, when you like, I always say to people, like, why, why book the reading with the other person, if you can read your own cards, and there’s a phrase like you can’t be and see ya at the same time. And also, if you’re too emotionally close to something, it’s good, like I know, you read for for folks, it’s good to get reading to somebody when you feel too close to a situation or too emotionally invested. So it’s always good to get that Self Checker by having another trusted reader read for you. And it was very curious to me when the second reader started saying almost summer verbatim, and they didn’t know each other they were not they read in two different modalities like one reads with cards, one reads was channeled Like they don’t even use the same tradition. And they were saying some of the same sentences and the same timing of July and and July hadn’t even come yet. You know what I mean? So that also was really helpful for when those moments when we’re doubting and guessing, having spiritual tools that you can work to work, like reach to having spiritual practices that ground and anchor you. Like, I did not lean into my spiritual practice this hard in a long time. And I’m so grateful for them. Yeah, because, because I, they, they’re there for a reason. And they’re our practice and our anchor and our core foundational practices for our reason. And I think we can have a tendency folks have a tendency to abandon or run away from their spiritual tools or their practices, whether it’s meditation or exercise or yoga or getting a root whatever it is you do. I think when crap hits the fan, people can run away and drop it like kind of let go of this. It’s like you’re in the car at cars getting out of control and dependencies that look like a steering wheel. It’s like no steer into it, like lean into practices lean into your tools. And that really in those moments, I was like, oh man, am I doing the right thing? Like, trust me, my husband asked him like, I think 1000 times Am I making a mistake? And I was very grateful for our my witch knowing and also my spiritual practices and tools and that I had other readers I trusted I could go to to like check in on.


Sheila M  54:25  

Yeah, I love that you brought that up too, because that’s one of the things that I talked about. And I’m probably going to do a whole episode on it like when to get a reading even if you are a reader, because one of the things that I think people who read do is like put a lot of pressure on themselves to like have the answers and there are so many things that I can read on and and see very clearly but like you said, whenever it’s like a huge decision, and there’s a lot of emotion kind of wrapped up in it, it can be really challenging to see clearly and one of the things I talk about in my course is you To be ready to ask a question and hear the answer that you don’t want to hear. Yeah. And that’s really hard. Because I think, you know, sometimes I was I feel that where I’m having that moment, and I’m like, I’m not ready. I’m not ready to hear no to this thing right now. And so I don’t think I can read on it right now. So I’ve had very similar situations where, and that’s actually what happened again, when I kind of knew that I had to leave. Then I also went and got readings from people that I trusted, and verbatim. I mean, they said the same phrase, verbatim, that like is not a phrase that people say like they were all like, Oh, well, I guess it’s time to put your shingle out. And I had never even heard that phrase before. Right. In two weeks, three different readers to me, and I was like, Are you kidding? This is validation, right? Yeah. And that’s the thing is, I think it can be so powerful to validate how you’re feeling and you don’t you don’t have a that emotion sitting on top of it, it’s still an emotional experience. But you don’t have all of that emotion trying to like sit on top of you while you’re doing a reading. Even if you’re great at clearing things out, compartmentalizing, it is really hard when you’ve invested so much. And also when you feel such a sense of responsibility. And you know, like you said, you still have this whole online component, you weren’t ready to be done with our country as a whole. So to be like, let me just let this go is a huge decision. Especially I think, because you were successful, it wasn’t like you were letting it go, because it wasn’t like you weren’t doing well or whatever. Like you were, you were a successful brick and mortar business. And you were saying, Okay, I think that this is not the right thing anymore.


Winifred Costello  56:47  

I think it was very much like the like I said, like we literally had some of the best months ever and to start a 2020 before the COVID head like oh the irony, but at the same And the whole point is about being in service to the mission and it became very clear that the best way I could you know really keep invest continue to invest in our country and the vision and the mission and be in the best alignment to be able to serve that and the ultimately the mission was to let the story not – it would be foolish to hang on out of fear. It was clear it was time to let go and trust and and and trust that spirit knew like was guiding where we were headed next. Not that you give up your own authority you’re still listening and partnering it’s like a collaboration co creation. But yeah, like at a certain point when is holding on actually choking off the very energy that you are seeking to receive. And that’s pretty clear. I want to say I know your Tarot. So it was very much like an eight of cups.


Sheila M  57:47  

That’s literally what I was gonna say I you were at like this very like eight of cups moment where you were making a decision that’s best for you. But that doesn’t mean that it’s not hard and that there’s not like grief with it. Like you’re Kind of seeing it there and knowing. But like, knowing that there’s something better ahead if you can, like, let go of what’s there,


Winifred Costello  58:08  

right? They always tell people yeah, run it cups. If you look at the person in the classic card, they’re not look their back is they’re not looking at what they’re leaving behind. They’re looking at the path that’s ahead of them. And they know that there’s more to be there’s more, there’s more to the to the path that lies ahead. It’s they just know when it’s when something’s complete and full. And it’s time to let like let go of what’s done and open to what the next leg of the journey hold.


Sheila M  58:34  

Yeah, yeah. And I think it’s so funny because I think I always kind of think about these situations in life as like the energy of a card and literally when you were talking earlier, it’s so funny that you said that because I was like, I was like, Oh my god, this is so eight of cups, like, like knowing it’s the right thing. It’s still a really challenging thing to leave behind. Because again, it is it’s like your baby, you know, it’s a it’s an emotional thing and it’s it’s the thing that you’ve cultivated and it’s more than just the store itself, it’s the community, and that sense of, of creation. But knowing that, like you said, moving forward is allowing you all of these different opportunities and this ability to reach people who would not be able to reach these kinds of resources necessarily where they live or in their community or in secret sometimes, you know, and I think that’s really important. And so I love that you brought that up, which kind of transitions us into our next thing and what’s funny is I don’t know if they’re going to come out in this order, but I I started doing interviews and I kind of like accidentally set them up in in like, card order, which was very not intentional, but I was like, I really see you like personality wise, as like the High Priestess card because you do so much of spiritual work, but also specifically in how you teach with, like helping to connect people with their own authority and their own agency and their own sense of intuition. And you do it through a lot of different modalities. And I think that that’s what like really kind of drew me in on that because I was a little, I was having a hard time narrowing it down at first because I was like, She’s so many things. But I do think that like what you do in your business, and the wishing well, which we’ll talk about a little bit more in a second. But what you do with all of these programs is kind of like, set people up with their own sense of authority and to connect on their own and to really trust that wisdom, and you also live it, which is like what you’re going through right now is the perfect example. And even though that’s kind of like an eight of cups situation. It’s that high priestess sense that’s guiding you through every step of the way. And also, I feel like how you kind of present in your business. So it’s really funny because I was like, Oh, I did. I did. I’ve interviewed one of my friends who was a fool and then another person who is the magician. And then I’m like, Oh, this is like so weird how this is working out? 


Winifred Costello  1:01:08  

Yeah. It’s no accident. There’s no coincidences. It’s all some sort of divine synchronicity. I so that’s really interesting. I always that’s a really good point you’re bringing up so I think of our our souls evolution, our healing, like that. First of all, I think that healing is our everyone’s birthright. Like by being born onto the planet. I kind of see I kind of aligned with the idea that the earth is sort of like the school school for spirits. And we incarnate here and we have work to work on, lessons to unpack evolution to either say yes to or not to free will, I believe it’s free will. free will and choice is also in play. So I always like in one’s spiritual journey or the whole enchilada. That’s an okay word to use is like a, like a circle. everything to me is very circular. So I feel like it’s like a wheel and we stand in The center of the wheel. So that’s sort of like a high priestess stance in the center of the wheel. And it’s a mini spokes wheel. And how many spokes your wheel has is personal to each is to each individual. And you know, one thread like one spoke with the wheel could be a healing modality one spokes of the wheel could be a divination tool, like Tarot or some other art or astrology. One tool could be like herbal medicine, or you know, functional medicine once one spoke B, just being a mom or being in a family or having pet like doing your, the, like the Dharma, like the actual being on the earth plane, the physical reality. So I feel like it’s our work to claim our personal power and claim ownership of standing in that center of the wheel, and deep listening and doing our inner work and the inner knowing so that we can understand at what point in time when we encounter something happen unfolding or manifesting in our life, what spokes Do we need to sort of like reach out to and Access in any given moment to help empower us to either show up for our life and enjoy it, or move through a transition or manifest a new project or solve a problem. And it might be in a myriad of those folks like you might be one might be three might be all eight of them. Like, each individual knows what’s ultimately best. I really believe like, like, there is no problem that we encounter that we don’t have ultimately have the solution to there is we have all the tools we need within us at any given moment. It’s about understanding how to recognize and access them and giving ourselves permission to to claim them for ourselves. And that’s not about stepping on other people or power over. It’s very much about standing in your truth and sourcing power from within. So I hybris is perfect because I kind of think we’re all like working on being your own high priest or priestess or priestex like whichever word works best for you.


Sheila M  1:03:52  

Yeah, and I i absolutely. I see that 100% because I do think that like ultimately what you’re doing Teaching is for everybody to be their own High Priestess or priestex. Like you said, I think it’s really important because we spend so much time and I talked about it in my high priestess course, actually, that we spend so much time from the time we’re born learning from other people rather than learning from ourselves. And we’re all like, we’re kind of programmed to get information from outside of ourselves rather than from within. And so I think it’s so interesting that that’s you have all of these different modalities. And in all of your work, that’s kind of like what you’re doing. Even with the story, it was kind of like you were like drawing people in and giving them all of these resources. So I know that you’ve transitioned the store to be online, but also simultaneously while you were running our country, the physical store and now into the online store. You also have a monthly membership called The Witching Well. Can you talk to us like a little bit about that program and what you do in it, and how It kind of plays into this whole High Priestess vibe for everyone?


Winifred Costello  1:05:04  

Um, well, I’ve community is my jam, I think I finally can claim that I’m always I’ve always been known for creating communities and being very involved in community like when I had a corporate job that was a big thing I was known for. And like in coaching, like having a coaching an organic like a sort of a coaching approach to life. I also you know, have some training like in NLP and other things help support that. And The Witching Well is, I call it the uncoven, so this is not to bash on covens covens are wonderful, amazing spaces when and when you can find the right coven, it can really be an incredible experience. Um, but at the same time covens are often location based, they can be complicated, like or just have a lot of structure that may or may not fit the modern witch or the modern pagan. And I also so the witching was I call it the uncommon experience. Or collective. So we functioned like a collective, and we gather around core values and a mission rather than, like a like a coven. It’s a lot of the you know, ethics and core values that one would want in a coven are there and the benefits of what’s in the coven, but we don’t have like the structure of a coven. Because we’re not one tradition. It’s more about opportunity for me to mentor and empower folks to claim their spiritual agency and to understand what tools are in that that wheel that are speak to them mostly that are available for them to develop that they can then be their own High Priestess. You know, ministering to themselves or to others if that’s what they’re called to do, as well as family or other professional. So that witching well is it can be a magical collective or magical community for Earth centered spiritual seekers that want to grow, grow and build spiritual, like a pagan Wiccan witchcraft, like Earth centered traditions that are relevant, meaningful, accessible and tangible to them. That’s what we do there. I love that. 


Sheila M  1:07:02  

I love that that’s so beautiful. And I know you’ve been doing it for a while. So you also have kind of this collective experience that grows in in like how you structure things. And that this transition has also opened you up to have more time for like this community and being a little more creative. So I know you have the witching well, which is opening soon. And I’ll have information all about that in in the show notes for this episode and everything. So there’s people are interested in kind of checking it out or maybe dipping a toe, they can get a little bit of that experience with you. And I also want to talk about you mentioned it quickly earlier, but your Oracle guidebook I know you kind of have an idea in line of when you want to release it, but can you talk to us maybe just vaguely as much detail as you’d like to share about kind of what what type of Oracle deck it is and what you’re going to be doing with it.


Winifred Costello  1:08:01  

Yeah, so I have I am co creating the Oracle deck with visionary artist and illustrator of Melissa Pandena , too, so I can’t give her credit for, you know, for the visual artwork. We co created this. We’ve known each other for a long time we met on a Halloween Eve which so like, yeah, we met at an Irish session and in a cool Irish pub on the thundering rainy Halloween night. So it was it doesn’t get much richer than that.


Sheila M  1:08:28  

Yeah, I mean, matters. Like, Witch level 100 


Winifred Costello  1:08:32  

Yeah. Um, so we co created and founded Awentree together. And she’s a massage therapist, that was kind of like some of the artists that some of the things she was bringing to that. And then as I said, I bought her out because she married started her family and she’s been more into our art career in recent years. So she approached me about let’s choose, like, I think that our next thing to do together is this Oracle deck, and so it’s very much revisionary healers. Which is seers mystics that would like to have an Oracle deck if you think of like a lot of old European witch traditions, when you went to the witches edge of the forest she might cast bones or some other augury or divination method as part of like working in a healing session with you to get that like a lot of times like the healer will want to kind of like converse with spirit on your behalf and with you to sort of see how can they best help you or serve you in your healing that you’re seeking. Um, and if you think of it, like from a spiritual prescription, I know prescription is kind of a touchy word in this world. But um, but so like, like how do you get the right soul medicine for what you’re seeking? And so we wanted to create a deck that could really speak to that worker that that spirit worker and so it has like, it has a like a upper world middle world underworld coming ponent it has like a lot of her and I have similar backgrounds. So it really brings together an integration of a lot of our traditions and has like elemental energy has like that wheel energy. It has like a cloth that you can use it with, like you like that adds another layer to it. So the deck is all painted. It’s these about 40 to 45 cards that are really pretty amazing. So Melissa power drew all the paintings and I’m working on creating a guidebook that will help you understand the system and also be able to like, you know, have some readings and how could you apply the guidebook like Okay, so I’m at that visionary healer, how can I best maybe work with this as a tool in my box when I’m on either for myself or if I’m working with a client.


Sheila M  1:10:43  

Brilliant. My gosh, that sounds so cool. I love I love how you described that to like the finding the witch in the woods. He’s gonna, you know, all of the old school, you know, things that I think have kind of fallen out a little bit and really bringing that kind of have older wisdom into the modern day, which is like, perfect for what you do. So I’m so excited about that. So that’s expected in winter of next year? 2021?


Winifred Costello  1:11:12  

Yeah, we’re hoping it’s really waiting on me to finish up that book. So now that’s one of the projects I can have. I can have time now to get going. Um, I’m like, you know, about 2000 3000 words in on a 20,000 word project book. So, but I’ve put a lot of, like structural, like, you know, it’s not like I haven’t thought about the book for a long time and been taking notes on it. But now I need to like paper to pen to paper and bang it out. So we’re, um, I know, Melissa is chomping at the bit to have it come out in 2021. Yeah, so kind of our target date.


Sheila M  1:11:46  

Very exciting. Oh my gosh, it’s so cool.


Winifred Costello  1:11:49  

It’s pretty it’s kind of overwhelming and it’s exciting. This I haven’t I haven’t really been able. It’s one of the things that when I love my store, don’t get me wrong. I love every bit about our country. It takes a lot of emotional, mental, spiritual and physical bandwidth to have a physical store. So it was hard to have the bandwidth that I wanted for these other projects while having the store. So I’m very excited that now frees up so much of that for me to get things other things happening in the pipeline.


Sheila M  1:12:16  

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s so important to, to keep from like that. Like, there is a level of I think like spiritual burnout and stuff that can happen when you are doing a lot of this work. And I think having something that really inspires that creativity and that like intuitive connection to creativity, that is really exciting and keeps things fresh and keeps you innovating. I think both in your personal practice, but also like I’m sure in your teaching and everything as well, because everything that you’re doing is kind of like setting that up. So I think that’s really exciting. Thank you. I’m excited. Yeah, so I like to kind of close things out, I have just kind of like one more question, which is a little bit of a loaded question. But if you could give one piece of advice to people who are struggling to connect with their intuition or struggling to trust their intuition, what would you kind of say to them? Maybe they’re a baby witch maybe they are a person who is in an environment where they’re not really encouraged to be intuitive, what would you say?


Winifred Costello  1:13:25  

I think most importantly, if you’re really questioning or self doubting your own intuition is to anchor it into the physical in some way. That could either be by having a pulling a card every day and writing in a journal. Or if you have a different whatever your divination tool is, whether it’s pendulum work or augury or Omen walking, just that you do it a few times a week if you can’t do it every day, but that you documented it –  one, it could be dreamwork anything that you’re so our soul is always speaking to us. And the reason the intuition those intuitive arts are so quiet Because that’s the vehicle that our soul kind of kind of get direct access to have a conversation with us. And so the more you can get in the habit of writing down what you’re receiving, and making notation so that as months and time pass, you can look back and go like, Oh, right, this event’s happening today. And Geez, that dream I had, that dream is pretty much was telling me or that reading or that moment I used the pendulum or the birds were flying a certain pattern that just had a feeling the more you can document and observe and record your own journey. And look, have it as a resource of yours, how your soul is talking to you. So I think that our souls, every one of us has to learn the energetic language of our soul. And the best way to do that is a – through practice, b- that practice needs to bring it into the physical earth plane in some way and c- documentation so you can have something that you can look back to over time to validate to give you that validation that Oh, right. So one of the biggest things I discovered through keeping like a dream journal was that It literally took me five years to discover what exactly was going on when I would dream up black bears. And because I kept the dream journal when it finally enough, because those dreams didn’t happen that often because they were related to very specific giant events in my life. So I had to have like, literally years go by for enough documentation to occur or light bulb could finally go on. Yeah, and that was a huge breakthrough for me. So again, I think people aren’t patient enough. And so I think we can document because it can take months, the way the soul speaks, and the spirit operates, as you know, and I know I’m preaching to the choir here. I know you know, all this, but spirit has its own timeline, and it’s very different than us here. And so it can take a long time for something to really come forward. So I think people end up doubting and the best, that’s the best way to develop your confidence.


Sheila M  1:15:48  

Yeah, yeah, I think that’s so important and and a really beautiful way of saying it is kind of bringing that physicality because it’s easy to write things off, I think, especially if you’re not kind of seeing I’m writing repeatedly. And I know that was my experience of everything happening in the beginning, you know, so I’m really cool. So I will I will have this all in writing and in the show notes, but where can people find you online? How can they work with you? Where should they go to look at all of your awesome offerings. 


Winifred Costello  1:16:19  

It’s pretty easy. It’s Awentree. So it’s everything I want you so it’s It’s @Awentree on Instagram, and there’s a page Awentree on Facebook.


Sheila M  1:16:28  

Awesome, awesome. Thank you so much for being here today, Winifred. I appreciate it so much. I am I’m happy to have somebody who is both and a friend of mine and also somebody whose work I admire so much and, and really like you’ve shared so much of your journey and I know that it will connect for the people that it’s meant to connect for. So I’m so I’m so appreciative of you being here today.


Winifred Costello  1:16:52  

Thank you, Sheila. I’m so excited to be here. This is super fun. I could talk well, we’ve already talked a long time. I could talk to you all day like you’re I love nerding out with other healer-type folks and witchy readers?


Sheila M  1:17:03  

Yeah, yeah, this is awesome. Thank you so much.


Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you loved today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me @Starsagespirit and let me know what you learned what surprised you and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episodes show notes you can head over to

Using Tarot to Navigate Career Change

Career Tarot

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In Episode 5 of Living Tarot, I discuss how tarot can be a useful and effective tool for navigating career changes and crossroads.  So many of us have blind spots when it comes to our careers.  We get tunnel vision and it’s hard to see clearly.

  • I discuss the types of readings that can be helpful when navigating career crossroads.
  • I also speak to how tarot can help you to navigate multiple options instead of just focusing on one thing.
  • I explain how tarot can help with goal-setting and achievement by acting as a tool for reflection and investigation.

Connect with Sheila:

Book a Tarot or Reiki session at or find her on Instagram

Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium, and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure and embodied the tarot along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing, empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the Tarot.

Hey there, welcome back to another episode of Living Tarot. Today on the podcast I’m going to be talking about navigating career changes and transitions with Tarot. In today’s episode, I really want to focus on some of the more practical ways to use Tarot. Whether you are a full time reader or you are somebody who casually dabbles. Tarot can really provide a lot of insight and especially when it comes to career can help to take some of the emotion and some of the kind of the boxy way we can think about our current career trajectory and turn it on its head a little bit. So we’ll be going into that on a little deeper level. And I’ll talk about some of the ways that I use Tarot in sessions to work with people on their careers.

 So let’s get into it. Starting out, one of the things that I see happen a lot, I do a lot of career readings. And so I see a lot of people who come In, and they’ve kind of planned their whole career based on either what their company has told them is available, or what their family has told them as available, what they heard in college was available. And as much as it can give us a little bit of a map to follow in our career, it can also really narrow down our ability to be creative, to accept new ideas and challenges and to think outside the box a little bit. And so one of the things that tarot can be really great for is offering us kind of a shift in perspective and getting us outside of our own. Our own kind of cultivated thinking on what our career should look like, can look like, and the directions in which it can expand and grow.

So with that said, some of the bigger things that I use tarot for are things like career trajectory. So sometimes I will sit down and do a reading with a client who is looking for kind of what to focus on over the next year of their career. So they might be happy with the position they have. They like their company, they’re in a pretty good position. And they’re just wondering what will help their career most long term. So whether that is getting more training, volunteering to be on a certain team are to take on a certain type of project. They’re really looking for insight on how to very specifically grow their career and to be intentional with how they’re using their energy throughout the year. And so we might do a full year spread where we go into what the energy of the year is going To bring professionally and what they might experience over the next 12 months, and how they can best serve themselves through some of the challenges that might be coming up. Sometimes we look very directly at what challenges they’re going to face. And all of that is great because it provides a lot of info. And it usually serves as validation for something that they’re already feeling. So most of the time, what I’m saying isn’t coming totally out of left field, it may be something that they didn’t even tell me about that they were already considering doing a training on something that came up and happens frequently because you know, we are all intuitive and people do have an understanding of what they really need to do in a given moment. And so when they come in, I can provide a sort of validation that helps them to feel more grounded and comfortable making that decision. And it can also provide them with a greater sense of calm going into it, and a greater sense of accomplishment, and agency over what steps to make next. And so it’s not about coming in and having the cards, tell them exactly what to do and how to do it and what to expect. And when to expect it. It’s more an offering of what they might be up against what they might be facing, and how they can best approach that with grace and understanding and with the greatest outcome in mind for them, and really to empower them to make the best decision for themselves in that moment. So that’s kind of the first way that I work with people.

The second way is that when people are feeling a little bit out of alignment with their career or like, they thought they were going to like something and they maybe didn’t like it so much, and they’re really looking for, what should I really be doing? What is my ideal career? Or what is the ideal position for me, I, I have this sensation of not quite knowing how to put my finger on what doesn’t feel right about my job, but I know that something isn’t right. And so in those kind of sessions, where we’re looking at your ideal work, it can be very helpful because often, it’s not terribly different than what the person is doing. There’s just some element that’s out of alignment, whether maybe you’re in a support role, and you need to be more in an individual independent working mode. Maybe you prefer to be in a supervisory mode, and right now you’re not or maybe you need to Be able to set your own schedule and and you’re not in the position that you have. And so when we do this ideal work type of spread, it can provide insight not just into the type of work that is ideal for you, but also the structure of that work, the emotional input and output of that work, the time commitment and the energy commitment, and can really help to give you some valuable information about why you’re not feeling in alignment with the work that you’re doing, even if it might look good on paper or sound good or even if you really like most of the things about what you’re doing, and just are having a hard time closing the gap between that level of satisfaction that you’re hoping to achieve. And so, in an ideal work spread, we can really look at who you are as a person What the position is like that would be ideal for you and how that compares to the position that you’re actually in now, because usually the disparity can come up pretty clearly and pretty quickly, and show some insight into how and why that might be. So that’s our second second type of reading. From there, we also have time to the timing piece. So when is it time to make the next move in my career or for entrepreneurs? When should I release this next offering? What should I be working with right now? What should I be working with over the next couple months and when would be kind of the most opportune or the most successful time to release this next project that I have covered? up, or when is the best time to really focus on creative pursuits or when is the best time to buckle down and focus on setting up structure and support in my business. And so those sessions can be extremely, extremely helpful because especially for for people and and this one I see a lot of entrepreneurs and solo business owners come in and look for because sometimes we have a lot of emotional attachment to projects that are very personal. I speak from my own experience of really wanting people to have a certain experience of of my work and I get very excited when I have some new creative projects coming up. 

This podcast is a perfect example. And I can want to like throw myself into it 110% every single project, but I have recognized And over time, realized how important it is to time these things, right, because when we try to push really hard on something or force something out, it can really lead to us dropping the ball on other projects or other things that we do regularly. Or it just might not be a time when people are ready to hear it. Or you might not have the kind of creative energy at that time to really bring a project to life. But in a few months, you’ll have a little break and then a little time to actually tune into that. And so when we do a reading, where we’re looking at timing and everything, it can be very helpful. To again, look at what the natural energy that we’re going to be having in a certain time period is and help us really effectively use our resources so that we’re not spinning our gears because especially for entrepreneurs, it can be very easy to get distracted by shiny object syndrome and constantly chasing around something that we’re really excited about and really passionate about that looks really good. But it’s just not really well timed or doesn’t quite fit into our business as it is. And not every single project necessarily needs to happen either. And so with these type of readings, sometimes it can help people discern what is most important, if it is a project for right now, if it’s something that needs to be placed in a parking lot or in kind of like a project backlog where you can kind of go through periodically and see what jumps out at you. But it might not be something that is in alignment with your business and the goals that you set for yourself that year. So that can also be very enlightening. 

Hey there, I want you to be the first to know that I am offering a free training Terrell For real life, get your shit together with the Tarot on Sunday, September 20 2020 at 12pm eastern time, this workshop is extremely powerful. It talks about the top mistakes that new Tarot readers make will cover the neuroscience of Tarot and how it can stop the anxiety cycle and the exact steps to follow to start reading effectively and efficiently for yourself. This is where the spirituality of the Tarot meets real life situations. And my goal is to have you leave that workshop, either with a reboot to your tarot reading or if you’re a brand new beginner with a good idea of how to get started so you can sign up for that free workshop in the show notes today. Or if you already know that you are really interested in signing up for a tarot course. I will be opening the doors for my Tarot course for the last For 2020 the course is called Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. It is a seven week Tarot course that takes you from brand new beginner to tarot reading Pro, and helps you learn how to bring that practice into real life, how to use the Tarot to help you make complex decisions effortlessly. So if that sounds good to you, you can sign up for the waitlist in the show notes today. 

That kind of leads me into another reason, which is to help you really set and align your business goals for the year. So just like a lot of readers do, sessions each new year for kind of their personal year ahead. I also do business year ahead readings or career year ahead readings, where we’re very specifically buckled down on your business and career. So especially for entrepreneurs, we’re looking at what you’re goals are and and for for just regular career readings, we’re really looking at what your goals are for the year how to really prioritize those how to not get distracted. And it also usually entails looking at what those distractions might be because just having that knowledge can help us recognize them quicker, and kind of shut it down if we’re finding ourselves getting really distracted. And so that can be extremely helpful and extremely enlightening for opening our eyes to possibilities and also setting us up for success and making us accountable to what we really want and to keep checking in with those goals throughout the year. So that is one of the offerings that can be extremely potent, and I do have people who still reach out to me, you know, months later and we do a check in every now and then, like once a quarter just to to check in on health. Things are going and how we’re feeling in alignment to those goals, and how we might need to shift a little bit. And it’s been extremely, extremely exciting to see how it has helped clients to stay really, really focused. And to hear feedback from them on how the quality of their time working and of their lives even given so much going on in the outside world right now with a global pandemic and an upcoming election in the United States. How it has really helped to keep them grounded and focused at a time when it is very, very easy to get distracted. And so it’s been really exciting for me to see how, over time the reflections that these cards hold up for people in this, this mirror that they provide really, really helpful To serve as something that is clarifying and very intentional. And so that is really a huge part of my philosophy with reading Tarot is recognizing that Tarot is really a mirror for all of our human experiences, and each card is an archetype that represents an energy that we all experience at different times. And so within those 78 cards, we really are provided with this, this reflection of exactly what we’re going through in a given moment, what we need to prioritize how we’re feeling energetically how we can find support and how to carry that support with us. And how to call on it when we need it and how to effectively use all of the resources that are at our disposal without pushing ourselves into burnout or exhaustion and so I’ve really found that that can be a very, very potent and effective type of reading for for career and business Tarot and then finally, and these are just kind of the primary ways that I use it it is by no means the be all end all of career Tarot. But I did want to mention a couple specifics just to give people some ideas if you read for yourself how to how to really create and start to cultivate your relationship in more of a business setting. 

And then the final way that I use this is really making choices. So, we all kind of come to different crossroads. So, navigating crossroads and career where we might feel like what we are doing is no longer in alignment for us. We might be feeling called to one or more other things, we might be feeling called to add something maybe a side hustle, especially millennial generation. Having a side hustle has kind of become the norm because of a lot of the financial struggles that millennials have faced since graduating most of them either right before or in the midst of Great Recession, and now with dealing with a second recession and their early careers, really experiencing and me to be creative and to find other options and also a little bit more control over the Our financial lives. And so I do work with a lot of people who are trying to find either additional work or work that is more in alignment and are facing that career crossroads that they’re trying to navigate. And it’s important to mention here that in American culture, a huge amount of our self worth and value is tied up in our career and our work. And so it can be extremely, extremely difficult for us to agree to give up that level of control or to open ourselves up to the possibility that we might have picked not the wrong thing, but maybe just not the long term thing. And to recognize that the resources that we’ve put into something may be needed. be shifted and put somewhere else. And there’s a lot of pressure from basically the time that you’re, I guess, like a junior senior in high school, to really choose something that you’re essentially going to do forever, which I don’t really think is realistic for most people. I think for some people it is absolutely, but I also think that for most people, their career is a lot of Crossroads where they have to make choices. And so this is probably the reading that I do most often is this kind of career Crossroads navigation, where we look at different options and different ideas that you have and really look at what each of those entails. And it’s not about again, it’s it’s not about giving our power away to a deck of cards or letting the cards choose for us what we should do. It’s instead about getting information about what each option holds, so that we can make the best choice for ourselves. And that is what it’s really, really all about. Because it doesn’t really do you any favors. If you go into a reading and you think you’ve been offered your dream job and you’re so excited and you can’t wait. And you go into the reader and you ask, should I take this job? And you get the answer? No. Because then what are you left with? Nothing. And I will talk about this a little bit more in an episode that I do on how to ask the best questions in a reading but this this style of reading was really born out of recognizing that often Yes, no questions don’t really give us the information and tend to disempower us, rather than tuning us into our true feelings or our intuition. And so, when it comes to this Crossroads spread, it can really provide a lot of information and a lot of clarity. And it can help trigger the intuition of not just me as the reader, but also the client who’s sitting with me and and if you’re doing this for yourself, you know, it can help trigger your intuition around. What exactly it is that that you need to see about this dream job. Okay, it’s your dream job, but you shouldn’t go in guns blazing because your new boss is a micromanager. So just be aware of that or maybe, you know, you were offered two jobs and one seems better than the other but instead, it would have you you know, taking on too many putting on too many different hats or having to be too divided in your time or working too long hours, or maybe The boss kind of changes the job description once you get in there, you know, and there’s, there are so many different things that can come up around this. And so with this type of reading, it can really offer you a very holistic and robust understanding of what exactly, you’re looking at in different scenarios. And if you are in a place where you are just a little bit confused about where to go and have a couple of different ideas about what you might like to do, it can really help trigger your intuition and show you very clearly which path is correct or maybe which two paths are correct, or how to blend something that you were interested in into, you know, a side business or something that you do a little bit more maybe for fun even in in your regular life and it It will tell you things about that work like you can expect to make, you know, a good living off of this type of work, or maybe, you know, it would take you a long time to get to a place where you were making a good living. Or you would really have to have your heart in this work because it’s more of a service type of thing. And you’re maybe not going to make as much money from it as you would hope. And not to say that it’s all about money. But but that is certainly an important consideration when we are talking about career. Or perhaps it’s time, instead of money that’s important. So maybe it’s more important for you that you have something that allows you to be flexible with your time and your energy. And maybe you need something that allows you to set your own hours and there’s there’s a lot of different ways to look at this and to ask the questions in a way that can be extremely informative and really helpful to navigating all of those different diverging directions that are seemingly unrelated Related, and can help really give you a holistic picture at what’s going on in your career, what you’re kind of butting heads up against, and where you really need to start taking steps in a new direction. 

So those are some of the ways that you can work with that. I am right now working on putting together a more robust, spread grouping, so a little bit of a, a mini training type of thing on creating some more robust spreads for people who are more advanced readers. And also if you are interested in learning some of these spreads that I’ve been talking about, I will be teaching them in my Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives course, which opens up at September 21. And so you can Sign up the for the waitlist, the waitlist will be available in the show notes for this episode. And if you are interested in getting a reading with me, you can head over to my website, and see what’s available. I am open right now for readings in September and October. And really looking forward to connecting with some of you. If you have comments, questions, anything came up for you that you found particularly interesting. You can also send me an email at I would love to hear from you. I’d love to hear your questions. And I’m always looking for ideas of what you would like to hear on future episodes. So you can do that now. I will see you all or speak with you all next week.

Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you loved today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me @starsagespirit and let me know what you learned what surprised you and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episodes show notes you can head over to

Channeling, Creation & Embodying the Magician with Davis Carr

Davis Carr

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In Episode 4 of Living Tarot, I speak with Davis Carr, a tarot reader and astrologer based in unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe Nation (aka Ottawa, Canada). Davis and I discuss her journey into divination, tarot, and astrology and how she sees the birth chart as a map to connect with your authentic self.  Davis’ work focuses on practical applications of astrology and the ways which astrology can lead us to a deeper understanding of ourselves.  She is the true embodiment of the Magician card and we will talk about why that suits her and how it has helped her continue to innovate in her work.

  • We talk about Davis’ introduction to divination, and when she knew that she was being called to this work.
  • We discuss how important it is to show up for clients as a clear channel, and to deliver readings without judgement 
  • We also speak about how trusting your intuition is a more of an ever-evolving journey than a destination.

Connect with Sheila:

Book a Tarot or Reiki session at or find her on Instagram

Connect with Davis: or

Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium, and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. Each week on this podcast I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure, and embodied the Tarot along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing. Empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the Tarot. 

Welcome back to Living Tarot. I’m so delighted to have my friend Davis Carr on the podcast with me this week. Davis isn’t a tarot reader and astrologer based in Ottawa, Canada. Using the birth chart as a map, Davis helps people connect to their authenticity resolve the tension in their lives and discover how they can evolve and grow to become the best version of themselves. She uses Tarot to interpret messages and uncover the subtle energies at play, and helps guide her clients toward their own inner knowing. Above all else, she acts as a channel between her clients, the higher self and their guides. Davis is passionate about making astrology and Tarot as accessible as possible, and is currently working on a series of foundational astrology classes as well as co creating the Hollow Valley Tarot coming in 2021. In this episode, we talk about Davis’s work, how it has evolved over time, and how she really embodies the Magician card and the subtler energies that kind of weave throughout that card. I hope you enjoy this episode. Let’s dive right in.

Today I have Davis Carr on Living Tarot with me and I’m so excited to have her here. And we met several months ago in a business development type incubator program and hit it off right away because we are both Tarot readers and connected on that. But Davis I’m so excited to have you here today. Can you tell us who you are, what you do, how you bring life into this world? 

Davis Carr  2:33  

Thank you so much so much for having me. It is a pleasure to join you in conversation and I’m just really excited to dive deep and chat with you about Tarot and get super nerdy about intuition. I am a tarot reader. I am an astrologer. I am also an energy worker. And, you know, magic and astrology came into my life about four years ago. Now, but it really has been in the last two years, but I felt a really big calling towards doing it and creating a container for my practice. And that’s like really how radiant Taro my business was born was just me really wanting to figure out a structure and container through which to share my work with the world. And just like I got really excited about magic in astrology, and I wanted to share that with people and I wanted to meet people like you who are also into these things and have really nerdy conversations about Tarot and intuition. So I’m living my dream basically. 

Sheila M  3:37  

I love that so much. I love that whole I agree and relate on a lot of different levels. And I know we’ve had conversations offline about this, but tell us a little bit about your background and kind of how things started for you like what, what initiated you into this whole calling 

Davis Carr  4:00  

Yeah, well, my my background is in nonprofit communications and in digital marketing, so I have a pretty, I have a pretty traditional background for a digital marketer. As a kid, I was really obsessed with Harry Potter and Digimon. And I loved I like was really into the fandom. And so I started, I taught myself Photoshop and Illustrator, and I’ve taught myself how to code because I wanted to be part of these online communities. And it was through participating in these online communities that I started to write. I got really into fiction, and it just really was this underlying creative current throughout my life. I went to university and studied liberal arts and philosophy. And very interestingly ended up studying sort of the history of Western civilization through my undergraduate program, and I was very much focused on post modernism and post writing realism, killing God and tearing down all of the institutions. And that while I was there, I just got really involved in so many different forms of communications projects. So, right I was involved in the school newspaper, and I did posters for the theatrical society, and I was the communications officer for these theatrical society. And when I graduated, I just felt like, I had this collection of skills. And it wasn’t until I figured out that, like, the word communication is what I want, I needed to type into Google to find the jobs. I could do like that. That was really the first time that I was like, oh, okay, here, here’s a label for, for who I am and what I do. And for a very, very long time, my life was very much devoid of magic. I was very, I would say much more along the political and ideological end of things like I’ve always worked for nonprofits. In sort of that leftist environment, and that’s been very much part of my upbringing, and as part of my belief system, but it was just very practical for me, I was just like this I show up and I do I have skills and I should, I should give my skills towards a good organization that does good in the world. And it wasn’t until 2016 that I actually met a, I made a new friend at one of these progressive organizations, and she had a tarot deck. And she was the first person I had ever met who just had a tarot deck like she just had this thing that that she used on a regular basis. And until then, I’d only known about Taro as just like a thing which is dead in movies. But she had this deck and it was very progressive and feminist and so I followed her lead and I bought the same deck and I boAtheught a guidebook and that was really my first foray.

Sheila M  7:01  

And okay, so before that, did you like what kind of what were you taught growing up where you kind of taught about tuning in with intuition? And then once you’ve got your deck, did you do a program? Are you self taught? Like, how did that work for you?

Davis Carr  7:21  

So my background is I’m raised by two Atheists. One, my father grew up in a very religious household, a very conservative religious environment. And he very much rejected that growing up. And then my mother grew up in a very progressive socialist household. She grew up in Geneva, my grandfather worked for the International Labor Organization and my grandmother worked for an organization called the Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom. So it was like her environment was very much like, pacifist, socially progressive Like all of these things, and so that was very much the milieu in which I was raised and you know, I would say like feminism was more of a religion than anything else in our in my upbringing which I’m very very grateful for. But there’s a huge gap in my knowledge around religion and it is it was very much framed as God does not exist that is not for you like that is not a thing. So my now getting more into spirituality has been a really really big change and is something that I to be honest with you and really recommend like struggling to reconcile with like it is a very big a big left turn for me. But it also feels like coming home and a lot of ways because as a kid I loved mythology and I loved you know, I love the idea of connecting with something bigger than yourself. And and now of course, because I have studied traditional astrology, I actually can see the ways that all of these patterns are embedded into Western thought in general and all of our ideology. So I’ve sort of I found I’m coming towards figuring it out. But yeah, it’s very, this is not typical for my family, for sure. 

Sheila M  9:26  

I think that’s so fascinating to me too, because my experience was so opposite, in that I was raised in this very conservative, very Catholic upbringing that I always struggled to connect with, in the way that I saw my parents Connect, like, my parents would leave church and they felt like great, I’m like, you know, like, renewed and I felt like I was the weird one because I just did not connect with it in that way. And so it’s so interesting to hear from somebody who had like the complete opposite upbringing but kind of has ended up in a similar place. And I know even though we do different things, I think it’s very interesting because I’ve kind of struggled to reconcile that past with the new version of spirituality that I’ve kind of always known but had a hard time connecting with or feeling the authority or the agency to connect with as I was growing up. So I think that’s so fascinating. 

Davis Carr  10:27  

Yeah. And it’s, it is really fascinating because, you know, we each grow up in our own circumstances, and you don’t know what it’s like for other people. Something you know, something as simple as the idea of prayer. I don’t know how to pray. I prayer is not a part of my life. I was listening to a podcast episode about prayer, and it’s like about prayer and astrology and it was with one of my astrology teachers, Atutu Baba Dasa, who’s very spiritual in his approach. And so yeah, it was all about prayer. And I realized, like, I don’t know what this action is. And then of course, you know, I did some thinking about it and a tarot reading is our prayer. Like when I sit down and connect with my guides, that is prayer, but I’ve, I’ve had to cut like, Tarot was my way into intuition. astrology was my way into intuition. Whereas I think for other people that was, it’s more. I don’t know what it is for other people. That’s not my experience. Yeah. But I never say yeah, 

Sheila M  11:40  

yeah, I think that is so I think it’s so interesting. And so, so you got this terrible rash you started to learn? And what was your experience like with that? Did you teach yourself Did you take courses like what kind of helped you deepen that connection with something that you didn’t think? Have context for a really, really.

Davis Carr  12:02  

So the first two years of my practice, it was very light. I had the guidebook I had my deck and Around this time, like I really do have to credit just the burgeoning of what I call Tarotgraham in general, like Chani Nicholas is obviously a really really big influencer in this field. And it was through her work that I discovered astrology. And so Tarot and astrology have always been hand in hand for me. And Channing Nicholas does these new moon workshops and for about two years, every single month, I like most every more or less every month, I would buy one of those and I would sit down and I’d write out all of the transits and everything she said and I would, I didn’t know she would say things like sun squaring Saturn and I didn’t know what it meant, but I just absorbed it. And I would do full moon rituals and New Moon rituals and I would usually do a tarot spread and I journal about them. And that but that was pretty much it. And it was very, it was very private. It really wasn’t something I ever shared because I felt so weird doing it. This was also just in my life in general. It was the first time I was living in Ottawa, which is the city where I grew up and where I currently live. It was the first time I was living in Ottawa, in my own apartment with a roommate, because I had gone to school in Halifax, and then I lived in Toronto. And so it was my first time feeling like an adult in this way and really feel I shouldn’t say feeling like an adult, but I really felt like in control of my life and a very, very different way than I ever had before. I was working, I had, like my vision in front of me. And so those those lunar rituals in my bedroom, were just so precious to me, because they were truly just for me. And I would occasionally post them on social media. But that wasn’t the point. It was just me slowly learning this language and studying something that I really enjoyed. Yeah, and I think and then I think that’s so interesting to like you were saying, like this first kind of sense of being an individual away from every other, like influence that kind of shaped you, you know, and I think there’s, there’s so much of that, how old were you then? So I was 20. I was 25 ,26, 27. And what I would consider to be like the first stage of my spirituality. Yeah, yeah, like right up until my Saturn return, basically. And then as my Saturn return kicked in, we’ve sort of gotten got into this this new stage of the business. Rolling Yeah, but for so long. Yeah, it was it was very private. And it was personal. And it was just for me. And then the change happened very, very suddenly. And I like it was very vivid for me because it was February 2018. I was in Geneva, visiting my grandmother with my mother, my brother, my sister in law, and my eight month old at the time, nice. My grandmother lives is she’s currently 97 she, she’s wonderful and amazing. Amazing. Yeah, she’s great. And so she lives in this retirement center. And it was all I don’t know how many of that’s five or six of us in a one bedroom flat in this retirement center in Geneva. And I remember when I was packing, not I was looking at my tarot cards, and I thought, should I bring these? And I said, No, whatever. I don’t need this. Like, I’ll just what I’ll just keep going and While I was on that trip, you know, there was a lot going on obviously, like if you’ve ever spent an extended amount of time with an eight month old, who’s just learning how to walk, you know, it was also there were eclipses happening there was astrologically speaking there was a lot happening in my chart. And while I was there, I just felt so many emotions, and so overwhelmed and I all I wanted was a way to make sense of them. And like I objective things that could tell me what I was doing. And I didn’t bring my cards. And I didn’t I didn’t have an outlet and all I could think was like, I wish I had this thing like this is what it is for and it is this is what the tools for and I don’t have it right now. And so in lieu of that around this, this time, like I started looking at podcasts and other ways that have sort of getting my fix and also around this time Tess Guyverson who is the city which on Instagram. They were interviewed on Lindsey Mack’s Tarot for the Wild Soul podcast today.

Sheila M  17:13  

Love LOVE Lindsay Mack. Yeah.

Davis Carr  17:15  

And I mean, like this story I feel like can really just like we told from there because listening to Lindsay’s podcast, as like, like for so many people it Her work is so different than what you find when you do just a Google search for tarot cards. And it’s really deep, and it’s really personal. And so I was attracted to her work and that led me to her course and all of that. Then, I came back from this trip and I literally turned to my partner asked like a shortly after I got back and just said, I’m really into this and I’m going to really commit to this like, just so you know, I’m I am getting into this. And I just said it and I spoke it into existence.

Sheila M  18:04  

And what was the response? Because I know, I know, for me, it was a really hard conversation to have. Because I came from this background of being like, like when we met and we had been together for a long time when everything kind of started happening for me that I was like a corporate project manager and a yoga teacher. And like, that was like about us. witchy as I was, and when it came time to be like, oh, and also spirits are talking to me. And also I just, like know, things that I don’t have an explanation for. I was real nervous to have that conversation because I was like, Oh, this is gonna be this is gonna be it like she was on the other foot. I’m not sure I’d be like, Oh, sure, honey, that sounds great. You know? 

Davis Carr  18:49  

Totally. Yeah. It’s a very scary conversation to have. Absolutely and I will say this is my partner is a wonderful and unique it. vitual and his response was like, okay, like utterly nonplussed and just like okay, sure if that’s what you want todo, like really he was very very nonchalant about the whole thing and he has been extremely supportive in general and and how we like literally the room that I’m speaking to you in is a den or like another bedroom in our apartment that I have completely appropriated formyself and for we call it the witchy room so of it so yeah, he’s

Sheila M  19:38  

I’m in my Reiki room. So this is like my practice. Yeah. Yeah, I love that I love like you were able to kind of step aside and have that conversation and, and having somebody that’s so like,

Davis Carr  19:54  

Absolutely it is. It is really it was really wonderful. But also I found it It was when we moved in together that I really started to have to intentionally carve out space for this my practice and also to share what I was doing. And it really did help me get more comfortable in just making this a regular part of my life and practically speaking, like, it’s awkward to have to tell your partner not to come into the room for 45 minutes to three hours because you’re doing trance work or whatever, you know, like, yeah, those are conversations you have to have with your partner. 

Sheila M  20:39  

Yeah, yeah. And, and I think especially when you have such different experiences of things and and where they might not come from that same background, it can be like a really big challenge. So during this time, how did that kind of shift how you were connecting with intuition and like, what What was that like to have that grow over time? And what does it really like look like for now? 

Davis Carr  21:05  

Yeah. I I’m really grateful you asked that question, because when I started this journey, I felt so insecure about my intuition. I felt that that was for witchy woo woo, soft spoken people who sit on mountain tops and meditate and, you know, like, all of those stereotypes. And, yeah, it really I really struggled with it. And it really did feel like something that not only did it not belong to me, but that it was weird that it was hard. And because it was hard, that meant I couldn’t do it. And you know, like all and I shouldn’t do it in general, because the only thing that matters is the political and all of these things. There was a lot of narrative around that and A part of it really just felt like I I couldn’t have done anything else. It really felt like a compulsion. When I, when I started to learn about Tarot and I read the book and I and listening to podcasts and hearing those people in the way that they connected, I really just felt like, I know, I want this. And I just kept looking for it. And I kept looking for it. And I kept looking for it until I started to find it. And it took a lot of different teachers. It took a lot of time. It looked took a lot of practice, it just you know of trying to do it over and over again. And then eventually what I realized is that I could just my intuition was just he was always there and the thing that was stopping me from listening to it was just my own brain and doubting it. Like once I just decided to believe that it was true. And I just decided to accept and say yes to everything I was feeling and my instincts and my gut reactions to things and just said, Okay, this is the truth for me and made that decision. It almost was like, I don’t want to call it a light switch, but it was a choice that I made. And then it just got practice saying yes, and yes, and yes to that. 

Sheila M  23:30  

Yeah. And I think that’s one of the hardest things. It’s one of the things I talk about in my high priestess embodiment workshop is how much we are taught to like outsource wisdom to other people our whole lives. And then people think that it’s just like, you make the switch. And it’s like, so easy to just like, oh, once I decided to listen to my intuition, it’s going to be like so easy immediately. And I think that, like what you’re speaking to is really true that like, you have to make the decision that you’re going to participate, but also that it’s not just like, it’s not like you’re just listening to a podcast, you know what I mean? It’s it’s a little bit different every single time. And I think it’s really important for people to realize that it is an active choice to listen to, like you’re saying, but it does take a little bit and, and a variety of inputs to figure out how it works for you. And I know that you spoke to that because it’s one of the things that I struggled with so much in the beginning because it is so individual that I wanted somebody so badly to just tell me what to do. I was like, just tell me how to connect to my intuition. Tell me how it works. Give me the guidebook. I bought so many books. I bought so many things. I mean, it was like, all of this struggle was like the whole genesis for my high priestess and, of course, but I love that you’re talking about it here because I think it’s so important for people to realize that you might need to hear people say something like 20 times in order to hear the person put the right combination of words together that you’re like, yes, that’s how it works for me. So I think I love that you spoke to that too.

Davis Carr  25:12  

I totally I am so resonant with everything you have shared it it’s so true. And I think back to my early insecurities when I was first reading Tarot especially because I would get anxious about I shuffled the cards wrong, is it reversed if I flip it like this, or if I flipped it like that like it and was all of these tiny things and what very practically speaking, one of the eat the best things I did for my practice is I just decided that this is the way I shuffle. This is the way I cut cards. So I divided them into for years I just divide I decided this is the way I do I divide them into three piles. And I take the middle pile because that feels the most random You know, I flipped from the bottom up, and that I just picked it. And I and I said, if so long as I do these things, whatever reading comes through is true. And I had like my little mantra and my little, like, recital, you know, thing that I would recite as I wish before a reading and I just decided, if I do these things, and if I do this ritual I have dropped in, therefore, I can trust all of the messages that come through. And so I think like, yeah, small things like that, if you just decide that they are true, they can be really, really helpful containers until you start to just embody that truth and really start to listen to that intuition. 

Sheila M  26:45  

100% that makes so much sense to me. And I think, I think it will to other people to just like hearing that and and how, how it can kind of shift over time too and it kind of moves along. with you as you, as you kind of strengthen things and build on what you’re doing, it will shift along with you in that practice tips too. So I know that you’ve started with tarot and then kind of gotten interested in Chani Nicholas and astrology. So what was that transition like and how did you kind of start to move just from from Tarot and intuition there into astrology because I know that’s like a huge part of your business now. 

Davis Carr  27:28  

Ah, so Tarot and astrology were always simultaneous. For me, they are parallel tracks. It’s just that Tarot is a lot easier to learn to do immediately, in my opinion. Now, I sort of think, Oh, cute, there’s only 78 cards. When you really get into astrology, it’s just so much more than that. But astrology also is a very, very difficult thing to learn when you are out lay person who doesn’t know what they’re doing and who doesn’t want to immediately spend $2,000 on God knows what it is one of the hardest modalities to learn, because there is so much information out there so much of what has been written in the last, you know, 20 to 30 years is there’s not a lot of there’s there’s not the underlying structure to it. So they’ll just say things like, oh, Venus means love, and trines are good. But there, there really isn’t that cohesive explanation. And so I started doing what a lot of people do, which is just looking up the different terms and looking up, like reading a basic book and trying to figure out all the sign placements and all of that. But it really was just me for four years desperately trying to piece together and astrological education, listening to podcasts, buying one off webinars, realizing like oh, I think traditional astrology is cool. I like that. I like that there are reasons for things, but not really knowing what to do. And then in the fall of 2019, I finally took the leap and signed up for the nightlight astrology course, which is a foundational, like, from the very, very beginning, like up until the more complicated concepts all about traditional astrology. And it was the missing piece that brought everything together. And so all of those four years of really memorizing and embodying the concepts and just sort of having all of this information loose inside my head, it finally had a place to sit. And so now I I just feel like I have gone from zero to 100 because I have the foundation that I’ve been looking for for so long.

Sheila M  29:56  

Yeah, I love that. I love that. So much.

Hey there, I’ve wanted you to be the first to know that I am offering a free training Tarot for real life Get Your Shit Together with the Tarot on Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 12pm eastern time, this workshop is extremely powerful. It talks about the top mistakes that new Tarot readers make, we will cover the neuroscience of Tarot and how it can stop the anxiety cycle, and the exact steps to follow to start reading effectively and efficiently for yourself. This is where the spirituality of the Tarot meets real life situations. And my goal is to have you leave that workshop, either with a reboot to your tarot reading or if you’re a brand new beginner with a good idea of how to get started. So you can sign up for that free workshop in the show notes today or if You already know that you are really interested in signing up for a tarot course, I will be opening the doors for my Tarot course for the last time for 2020 the course is called Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. It is a seven week Tarot course that takes you from brand new beginner to tarot reading Pro, and helps you learn how to bring that practice into real life, how to use the Tarot to help you make complex decisions effortlessly. So if that sounds good to you, you can sign up for the waitlist in the show notes today.

I took a free training that you did earlier this year that was so wonderful about the shift away from like kind of the simplicity that I think a lot of people attribute to astrology which is just horoscopes and your sun sign. And you were really trying to teach people a quick way to go a little bit deeper and I know that you’ve been Working on teaching some like astrology intro type work this year. So how how has that shift felt for you and your business? And what is it been like to really follow follow your intuition into this kind of different place? And also like what kind of what kind of blocks and stuff are you coming up against as you do that because I know that there can be a lot of imposter syndrome when we do step into this role of like teacher 

Davis Carr  32:33  

Oh, yeah, – a lot of imposter syndrome A lot of you I know enough Am I enough of an expert A lot of you know that self doubt really nagging at me it’s it’s a really new shift for me. It’s really only been in the last I guess six months or so that I’ve really started to take seriously my calling in to teach astrology especially intro level astrology. More people broadly and really, except, you know, admit to myself that this is something that I really want to do. So I just, I fundamently – It really annoys me that the answers and the secrets and the the underlying thing that locks everything into place is hidden behind a $2,000 paywall. And that is not a slide into the you know, the folks who do like those 30 week long programs, they are important and crucial and so great. But now that I understand how simple it actually all is, I just want to share it with the world. And I think it’s such a shame that people the lay person doesn’t have this many wants to approach and and they might pick up things like what I would consider to be some bad habits in astrology around really personalizing or overly identifying with their charts or seeing a bad placement and feeling like it’s a it means they’re doomed. There’s so much opportunity there and there’s a lot of misinformation and so I, I really do see it as part of my calling to try to like, you know, stop that ignorance and really like give people information and really share that with them. 

Sheila M  34:32  

Yeah, yeah, and I totally relate to that. Because when I was creating Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives One of the things that like I was really seeing was that so many people were going through some very expensive and again, like very high price point offerings that are not accessible to everybody. And also coming out on the other side and still not really knowing how that relates to their life. So like they might know how to read sort of, but they maybe don’t know how to put together a spread for themselves or spread for like a real life situation that’s happening. And I was like, that’s, it’s so frustrating to me to see people spend so much money and commit so much time in so much energy to something and come out on the other side and not have a practical use for it. Because I always say, as as witchy and intuitive and connected as I might be, I’m always about trying to bring things down to earth and down to like reality and help you in your real life, not just your spiritual life, like that’s great and it’s super fun. Like I, I use astrology like basically for like, just interest and I have a very rudimentary understanding of things. But I think it’s like a fun thing to tune into, but it can also be incredibly practical. And I think that that’s one of the things that you’ve done really well with somebody If you’re offering so let’s talk about like, Okay, well, like how does this inform your life? Not just, I am this thing, you know what I mean? I’m a Leo. And that means that I love to be the center of attention or whatever, you know. And so I think that that’s so interesting. 

Davis Carr  36:16  

Yeah, it’s, it’s really important to me because it is it can be such a practical tool, and especially in the ancient or the Hellenistic tradition, there was a very big emphasis on looking at the chart as a reflection of your entire life. So it’s, whereas in modern astrology is much more psychological. They’re sort of using it to look at like, okay, where are your mommy issues? Like what What’s your relationship to money? Whereas the age the Hellenistic tradition is like, where what’s happening with the money in your bank account right now? What is happening to your job, the way that you make money, and so you know, you can see things in the chart that are so much bigger than me. Just your personality. It’s almost like it’s like it’s, it’s like a very cute human thing, right? We’re like drawn to this thing because we just want to know about ourselves. And I love that. And I, that thrill of recognition is so poignant with astrology. But then once you’re there, you’re starting to learn about it. It’s I love it, because it’s like, oh, by the way, the secrets to the universe are here as well.

Sheila M  37:27  

I love that. So why don’t we? I was just talking about it earlier, I was talking to a couple of my girlfriends who are in totally different businesses, but we have like a monthly meetup where we just kind of check in and talk about business ideas and stuff and and we were talking about that and I was saying, you know, people come to me for a tarot reading because they want me to tell them what to do. But that is not my job. As a tarot reader. My job is to really provide them the information and the background. So that they can be empowered to make the best choice for themselves. And so I think it’s very, very similar to what you’re saying here because it’s about empowering people with information and not giving them a tool so that they can opt out of participating in their lives.

Davis Carr  38:19  

Absolutely. I love that. 

Sheila M  38:21  

Which I think is why we’ve always gotten along so well when we chat about these things is that we have such like a similar perspective. And I think that I could do that, you know, and you could do that you could sit down and you could look at someone’s chart, you could tell them, probably all kinds of things about themselves. And that might all be true. But it’s so limiting if you just tell them, that programmed stuff, because then they feel like completely disempowered and like there’s no way they can participate and freewill has has no say which is not true. 

Davis Carr  38:56  

And that’s that’s the last thing you want to do and when I am doing Reading and when I’m working with a client, I really trying to be mindful that I am not prescriptive and I am not deterministic. And because it can be very easy to fall into that language of Oh, you’re a Leo, you love being the center of attention. And that is very not true for a lot of people. There’s so much more going on. Well, one of the things that I am quickly learning as I start to do astrology as a as a practice is that in exactly the same way a tarot reading is about consulting an Oracle and receiving that divinatory message. astrology is divination. Looking at the chart is the exact same process as asking the universe for a message. And as I am transitioning my business into doing more and more of the astrology work. I think my background as a tarot reader has been really helpful in Honoring that and bringing in that similar attitude to my astrology practice. Most most, you know, specifically because I trust that when a client and I sit down virtually, and we create the container that the messages that come through our session are the ones that they need to know the questions they ask or the ones that they need, or the answers that they need in this moment, the messages that I feel share to give the examples that I share from my life or from other charts, the imagery that I use, it’s all part of the divinatory experience. And I really have to trust that the client is going to get what they need out of the session. That is the intention that I set. And actually, once I, once I remember like, Oh, of course I should be dropping in and Doing my you know my prayers to mercury as I do before a terror reading I should and while I’m shuffling I should also be doing this for my client before we sit down in front of a chart. I love that I and I think that’s so important too and just to kind of like pause and take that moment to really remind yourself to because I know it can be hard as a reader, whichever way you’re reading or healing to because I know you also do energy work and to remind yourself that you are not tied to and responsible for outcome which is really challenging. So hard. That is one of the most difficult things to do as a as a practitioner, I think. And that is one of the early lessons that I learned from Lindsay Mack and from the Tarot for the Wild Soul Course. That has been really, really helpful. And it also is a big part of how I work with my intuition is that I really and I think this is going to segue nicely into a question you’re going to ask me later, but I really channeled the Magician when I am working and I having being a vessel or a channel or I think of it almost like a straw down my center line, like just, you know, a Yeah, exactly a little metal tube or something. That is, that is sort of that’s part of my practice. And that’s how I prepare for readings. And that’s how I work is really to make sure that I I am a clear vessel. And so once you’ve done that work and like the and I guess this comes back to our earlier discussion about how intuition works for me is like these practices and rituals are so important because that’s how I create the safety of trust. I have to trust That if I set the intention and make myself a clear channel that I am a clear channel, that is the only way it works like you really have to have that will. Yeah Spoken like a true mercury person, I am sure. But yeah, that is that is part of my process. And that’s how I that create that container to trust that whatever happens happens for a reason. And

Sheila M  43:24  

Yeah, I love that so much. I know. And that was actually the next thing that I was going to segue into. So you you beat me to it, but I know I had reached out to you beforehand and asked because you are a reader, and which not everybody on this podcast is but I’m asking kind of what which card you really feel like you relate to and embody and it’s so funny, because when you said the Magician I was like 100% I can see it because I feel like just from knowing you and knowing the way that you work so much of what you do is kind of boring. down these these kind of higher level ideas into something that is very grounded and able to be like used by multiple people but it’s taking a lot of like all of the different elements of the Tarot, right so we’re talking about, you know the channel and bringing in the emotional piece with the cups and like that passion and that drive with the ones and the practicality of like the Pentacles. And like bringing things like into that earthiness. And like the wisdom that comes with the swords and like kind of combining it all into one thing and being able to then teach that and distribute that to other people. is so it’s so beautiful, like the way that you have that ability to do that. And I know from you talking about it and from from talking to you about other stuff in the past, but that whole like channeling and trance piece is a huge part of it. Which I also consider to be a huge element in the magician card is this ability to kind of bring these very challenging and like overwhelming ideas down to earth, which can be like you’re saying, Mercury helped me to communicate this thing. It’s something that I experienced a lot, especially when I’m doing like mediumship readings, is trying to take this big jumble of communication and put it into something that makes sense and and gets like either an emotion or something that is not as like exact and precise, into words and into creation.

Davis Carr  45:41  

Well, you just described magic basically, right.

Sheila M  45:46  

True, true. Yeah. Yeah.

Davis Carr  45:48  

No, and that’s, that’s really what I love most about the work and it’s all it’s a little bit addictive. I don’t know if you found this when you’re when you’re doing a reading for someone Or like that feeling of having it all coalesce. And because for me and it’s the same with, with tarot readings as it is for astrology readings where you start with just all of these different symbols, and there’s there’s that moment as you’re looking down at the spread and thinking like, oh, what how? What am I gonna say, what, how do all of these pieces come together? But then you start and you start to layer everything on top of each other and you start to share and then the client responds and you’re like, oh, okay, that’s what this means. Now, what is this? What is this say? And then suddenly you realize that it’s all connected. All of these themes are relating to each other, and it’s really built on on itself, this really beautiful way. And I, you know, over the years of learning of doing Tarot as a reader, I just learned to trust that anytime I would try to hedge my bets. think oh, no, the client doesn’t want to hear this. And I would say what I thought they wanted, it just would never land. And then when I, I just said the thing that I thought it always resonated. And so once you decide, well, it’s not me, it’s the cars and my job is just to read what the cards are saying that it’s not you. It’s the cards. 

Sheila M  47:22  

Yeah, yeah. And I think it’s so funny how, how sometimes too, when you can be in that mode, and then come down to like reading mode that you can get in your own way a little bit by like, making it more complicated. I still remember this one, like stands out to me all the time. I was doing this reading for a woman who came in and I didn’t know her. She was like, referred by another client. And so I didn’t have a personal relationship with her. And it was one of my like, early clients that I didn’t know you know what I mean? Like I was one of the first clients that I didn’t have a personal relationship with. And so I knew nothing. About her except her name. And I’m there and I’m doing the reading and the Justice card keeps coming up. And I’m like, and we were doing a career reading. And I was like, I do not understand what is going on here at all. But like, it was like three different times that came up, like I didn’t reshuffle and then it came up again. And I was like, Alright, I just got to, like, take this, like, literally at this point, I think. And I was like, are you involved in the justice system? Because this card keeps coming up. And normally the way that I read it is not quite so literal, but but she was like, Oh, yeah, I’m a judge. Oh, my God. I was like, This makes way more sense now. I think I felt like I was losing my mind a little bit because I was like, why does this card keep bugging me, you know? 

Davis Carr  48:42  

Well, and that’s part of that Clear Channel, right? Like want the one of the biggest things that gets in the way of that channel is our own projections and our own anxiety and our own fears about what it means about us. But if you just let it all come from Through and practice detachment from that if you make that space to be like, Hey, are you a judge? I find the one that always comes up for me in readings is when clients come and say like, I’m really confused. I don’t know what to do. I just feel like I’m lost in the in like the fog. And then invariably, seven of cups comes up. But I’m like, do you feel confused? And it lost in a haze? And yeah, cuz you’re really confused right now.

Sheila M  49:34  

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and it’s so funny. And you can tell me I don’t know, like how many readings you have been doing recently. But right now during this global pandemic, what has been so interesting because it is the first time that there’s been a collective experience going on that I’m doing readings, and I’m finding these themes that weave through so many different readings. like four months, like around here, I live outside Philadelphia. And we were hit very early on with the pandemic and be locked down from like mid March. I mean, we were like really locked down. And so early on, I kept getting the hang in readings for people and I was like, I mean, we are like literally in suspension, like having our whole world turned on its head and trying to like figure out what the new normal is. It made so much sense to me. But it was like, almost comical how often it was coming up. I was like, I get it like the tower and the hangs on. I get it, like pandemic vibes for sure. But it was very interesting to see some of those themes as they were coming up. And again, if you get too much in your own head, it’s very easy to get distracted and be like, no like this can’t possibly still be true again. Like I feel like I said This earlier today, it must not be true. Oh, absolutely. And when you doubt yourself, you miss out on the beauty of that and of the collective experience. And I know for me when I share with clients like oh, yeah, everybody’s getting you know, Justice right now or judgment like that can really relieve some tension for people. Yeah, yeah. And that’s one of the things I’ve been experiencing too is like, I’m like, this is so collective right now. Like, is it? I’m feeling it’s what so many of my clients are feeling like it is such a, it almost is like a relief for people to hear that as much as they are separated from so many other people that the experience is still connecting them to other people.

Davis Carr  51:50  

Yeah, absolutely.

Sheila M  51:52  

And so, kind of bringing things full circle. So what does this look like now in your everyday life your connection with intuition with astrology with Taro kind of how do you use it for real? 

Davis Carr  52:10  

It’s really changed since quarantine obviously, like, like so many people my lifestyle has changed dramatically since March. And I it’s really been in flux Actually, I really feel like I am in a bit of a turning point and a bit of a restructuring moment with myself care practices and and am I like my magical practices in general. And a big part of that is the business. For so long. My main relationship with Taro was doing one on one readings, but I’ve made the decision to temporarily not be doing one on ones, mostly due to my day job as a nonprofit communicator. But also because I was doing a lot of astrology readings in June and July and I taught my foundations of astrology course and in May and June and so I really just need a vacation. So I’m really in this period of rest a little bit of a moon phase as I change a bit of my you know, my energy work has been a really big part of my personal practice. I’ve worked extensively with Ashley Stinson, who practices a form of energy work called energy archaeology. That is fabulous. I also have a discount code if people want to sign up for her for her lounge about we can put in the show notes. I love that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she’s great. Um, so that, you know, really over like, initially, that was a really, really big part, a part of it and doing my energy work, but it’s really changing and I’m sort of figuring it out, but mostly Recently, I’ve actually been going through a bit of emotional turmoil in my personal life and a couple of things are really coming up to be processed and I’ve been turning to my tarot deck and it feels so good to like I forgot how good it feels to sit with your deck and pour your heart out and ask for help and be your most vulnerable and ask the question you’re most afraid of and then pulling a card and having it be the most gentle loving message shivers it Yeah. Yeah, no, that’s, I have not that’s the biggest. The biggest way that I have developed my relationship with my deck is literally by crying with it. And by asking it and being my worst self, and the most poignant readings I do are when I’m just like, why am I crying? so much? 

Sheila M  55:00  

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh so so so relatable I think and it’s one of the things that I talked about in my course a lot is I think that there’s this idea that you need to come into everything as like this perfect Clear Channel and that is just not human like is that yeah god bless if you’re like that but like that is not most people’s experience. 

Davis Carr  55:26  

And I think that’s really important for us to name because we just had that big conversation about clearing our channel and not letting like our human emotions get in the way. I think we really should differentiate between reading for a client and setting that boundary and like and oh but also still allowing ourselves to be human when we are working with clients and like we don’t have to be perfect we can like be feel like crap and still do it does still valid. I had, you know, some of my favorite readings in the world. I have been in the worst part mood ever but I put me in a good mood because I know I guess I just have to like put that on a shelf for a little bit and then I always feel better afterwards. But then that experience Yeah, of like going to your deck, feeling totally messy with dirty hands as Lindsey Mack would say like, people should really, really like that is how you do the work is when you show up feeling like crap and you open yourself up to what the Oracle can offer you. 

Sheila M  56:28  

Yeah, exactly. And I think I do I think that’s really important to kind of differentiate because I am not coming in that way for clients and I am fully clearing me out for that. But I think that that’s one of the things that was coming up a lot when we were talking about this and it’s one of the things that keeps people from bringing their spiritual practice into real life, which is why I I really do want to talk about it because I think it’s so important to know that you don’t have to always burn incense and love candles and be post meditation or post yoga or whatever it is. And you can really just show up with whatever turmoil and whatever anks is there and give that all an opportunity to process. And in in my world is one of the most effective ways to use Tarot as like just a tool for reflection and for kind of bringing things down to earth. I’m like a highly emotional person and can be very like extreme with my emotions, and also have like a background with trauma that has contributed to that as well, which I think a lot of people do. And so having that as a tool that can help me process has been so so helpful, and to not need to show up as perfect because I think what was happening for me early on was, I felt like I always had to be like in that mode, like in In order to do a good job or in order to do good work for myself, and like more and more, some of the best work I’ve done has been in those moments when like, like you said, like crying onto my deck and like sniffling and just like pulling card after card until like I feel whatever is going on, you know? 

Absolutely, yeah, I think looking at your tarot deck and your Tarot practice as a method of self care in the truest sense of tending to yourself and figuring out what you need and asking for help from it is such a such a beautiful gift. And I really I encourage everyone listening who has a practice or who is you know, working on developing that personal practice. When you are vulnerable with your tool and with your modality it gives back right like yeah, 

Yeah, yeah, it’s beautiful. Um, and so I think that’s like the main stuff that I wanted to talk about. But I do have -I would love your perspective as an astrologer. And I am putting you on the spot a little bit to give us a little bit of like a rundown on some of the astrology stuff that people get really hung up on. So I normally play a little game at the end, but I actually thought this would be like kind of a fun way to talk about things. And so the first thing, the first little buzz word that I wanted to talk about was your Saturn return, which is a big, a big topic that I know a lot of people get into what’s kind of like your quick and dirty description of that and how people can use that time to like, effectively connect to their lives and how should they view it, I guess 

Davis Carr  1:00:00  

So a Saturn return is when Saturn returns to the place in the sky, the exact degree and exact minute where it was at the moment of your birth. There. So there we all have planetary returns. We have a solar return is your birthday. That’s what astrologers talk about. You can have a Mercury return, you can have a Venus return, you could have a Pluto return if you lived to the age of 250, I suppose. So, but the Saturn return gets a lot of hype, I think mainly because mostly through timing. So the Saturn return typically will happen between the ages of 27 and 29, although it really depends for people. But there’s a number of other transits and activations that happen in the chart between the ages of 24 and 29 that are very poignant, and I think a lot of the The Saturn return hype is actually some of those other transits that are happening. But that’s my personal theory. So but during the Saturn return people say because Saturn is the outer most visible planet, it represents endings structure, death, authority containment, it’s very much you know that cranky old man slash wise hermit. Saturn has a lot of different meanings. But one of the big markers that people It’s said to be a marker of adulthood, you are crossing a threshold because Saturn represents age and maturity. And for the ancients, that was the last visible planet so it’s sort of this big moment of Okay, you’ve fully been around the circle now you can enter this new stage of your life. The Saturn return happens every 27 to 29 years and for most people, that is a moment where you are making big decisions. Around the career that you’re you have with you’re going to have children it really is this big moment this Yeah, a portal into adulthood.

Sheila M  1:02:09  

Yeah, I love that so much. And, and this is really interesting so I didn’t get into astrology at all until after my Saturn return. I’m almost I’ll be 35 in a couple weeks and 

Davis Carr  1:02:22  

so you’ve gone through your second Jupiter return oh wow oh my god are going through it perhaps we’ll have to look at your chart to find out so exciting. 

Sheila M  1:02:32  

Um, but I realized the other day because I looked at like a like calculator to figure out when exactly it was. And I realized that right after it completed, I shifted my dating life and what I was looking for and completely so I decided to go back to online dating and have like a completely different attitude with it where I was like, Okay, I’m going to spend no more More than 15 minutes a night on us, I will commit to going on one date a month. And if I like the person, I’ll go out again. But like, I’m not going to be like, I need to be going out with as many people as like, I was like, I’m just making it simple for myself because I I just I don’t have the time or patience. You were making rules for yourself. Yes. And then. So within five months of that, I met my partner who I’ve now been with for five years. And I was like, it like blew my mind. I was like, Oh my gosh, when I realized the timing of like, when that returns finished, I was like, Oh my god, that’s so weird. That was literally like that month, I went on the first of five dates, the fifth one being my now partner, like once a month for five months. And I was like, This is so crazy. So I just I thought that was really cool. So I wanted to talk about that one. I also wanted to talk about what can people learn from their rising sign because they think that’s one of the things that’s really misunderstood by people. 

Davis Carr  1:04:00  

Absolutely, there is a huge emphasis in pop astrology on our sun science, which makes a lot of sense because it’s based around days and birthdays, and it’s very easy. The rising sign represents whatever zodiac sign was on the horizon at the moment of your birth. And for the ancient Greeks, this was the most important place and it was in fact, one of like the biggest contributions and like just distinguishing features of Hellenistic astrology is the invention of the ascendant. Fun fact for you, and so the ascendant represents the moment where the soul enters the material world, it’s going from the underworld into the light that and it is on the horizon, rising upwards, hence rising sign. So what the rising sign does is tell you what zodiac sign goes. In the first house, and there’s many different house systems as a traditional astrologer, I use whole sign houses folks could Google what that is. But what that does is what it tells you is whatever zodiac sign is on the first house, the sign that comes after it in zodiacal order, that’s going to be the second house to rise up. And then the sign that’s after that is the third sign to rise up. And so that tells you what zodiac signs align, which each with each of the houses and the zodiac signs sort of serve as the intermediary between spirit and the world and and you know, those those bigger forces and the material world. They’re what ground those forces into our life. Everybody has the same 12 houses. So, but everybody is going to have different combinations of signs and houses, planets and certain houses and houses. is telling you what part of your life, those energies are affecting. So there’s a house dedicated to your money. There’s a house dedicated to your siblings. There’s a house dedicated to your family and origins. There’s a house dedicated to your children, and so on and so forth. 

Sheila M  1:06:17  

Yeah. I love that I love I think that’s so important too, because, like I said, I am a Leo sun sign. I’m a Sagittarius rising. And I relate much more to Sagittarius, Leo, but I do still have like some of some of those elements. And obviously, there’s a lot more to it to an entire chart, but it was really interesting to me when I kind of learned about like, that kind of soul essence piece, like you talked about is like, I was like, Oh yeah, I was like that makes a lot more sense to me. And and, and it was kind of the first foray into it being more complex than just your sun sign, which I thought was really cool. And then because this is a podcast about in intuition. If you had to give people advice based on how they were kind of looking at their chart, and they want it to, and again, I’m putting you on the spot with this, but they want it to get a little bit more of an idea of how to connect with their intuition kind of based off of their chart, what would you tell them to, like pay the most attention to our look at? Just I know, I’m like, super putting you on the spot here.

Davis Carr  1:07:26  

Well, to be totally honest, my answer is to go to where I will put up links to my different resources. And I created a free download that is about your sun, moon and rising and it’s really designed to help put those pieces together. I am also hosting as we speak. It’s going to be at the end of the month but by the time this is released, it will be uploaded onto my website. I’m going to be hosting a workshop on how to read your birth chart. That really goes through what to do with it, and how to begin that journey. Because it’s a very, very complicated topic. But the non self promotional answer to your question is really the first thing I would advise people to do is Don’t panic. Because it is very overwhelming. And you are going to when you look up your chart, you’re going to see a ton of symbols, you’re going to see a lot of lines, you’re going to see graphs that you don’t understand, and it’s going to feel very, very overwhelming. And so in whatever astrology software you are using, go into the settings turn off aspect lines, if you see a button that says no aspect lines or you know aspects off, click it, that will remove the lines and it will make things a lot easier for you to look at. But just go slow. go really slow and take it one step at a time. And allow yourself to follow the vein of research wherever it leads you. Because when you are first looking at a chart and when you’re starting to figure, okay, Mercury and Libra, what does that mean? You know, it really you can just start googling some phrases and just see what comes up but only believe about 10% of anything you read like it really the amount of information out there is overwhelming, but most of it is crap. So, you know, you really have to be careful when you are first starting to research. But taking it lightly, giving it you know, a lot of play, being playful with it, taking time and trusting that it’s the beginning of a lifelong journey. And you’re going to have lots of opportunity to learn how the pieces all fit together. 

Sheila M  1:09:50  

I love that. I love that. And I think that’s I think that’s so important. There’s like this sense of like gentleness and I know we both share that kind of same philosophy with our Teaching of being like really kind to yourself and not needing to be perfect when you start out which I think is so important. And so with that where can people find you and obviously I will share your website and everything in the show notes but if people wanted to find you on Instagram on social media, your website if you can just give us the whole rundown you can find me on the Internet at I am on Instagram @MeridianTarot. I am also on Facebook if you want to get the BI monthly posts that I do over there and I have a newsletter that I suggest people sign up for especially if you are interested in taking more courses or working with me one on one. My books will be open later on in the fall. But in the meantime, I am going to be teaching lots more classes and workshops and good good exciting things in store. So I invite folks to find me On Instagram, sign up for the newsletter and visit 

I love it. I love it so much. Um, and I also know that you are in the process of working on your own tarot deck with a partner. So I’m hoping to next year have you guys on when your project is kind of coming to completion so that we can talk a little bit about what that process has been like, and share everything about the deck, which I mean, I love a new tarot deck. I have way too many. I love it. I love a new tarot deck. So um, so I would love to have you back on then. Thank you so much for being here today. And obviously we will have to have you back on.

Davis Carr  1:11:42  

Yes, please. I can’t wait.

Unknown Speaker  1:11:45  

Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you loved today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me @StarSageSpirit and let me know what you learned, what surprised you, and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episodes show notes, you can head over to

How To Ask Better Questions in a Tarot Reading

How to Ask Better Questions in a Tarot Reading

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In this episode, I discuss how to ask better questions in a tarot reading.  People often come into readings wanted to be handed all the 

  • I discuss how to ask questions that provide you with information so that you can make the best decision for you.
  • I also talk about some of the big differences between empowering and disempowering questions when you are getting a tarot reading or giving yourself one.
  • You want to leave your tarot reading having evaluated your options and with an idea of how to take actionable steps forward.
  • I also discuss how it’s easy and common to want the reader or the cards to just give you the answers, but that really puts you in a place of outsourcing your power and your wisdom.

Connect with Sheila:

Book a Tarot or Reiki session at or find her on Instagram

Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, and energy healer and medium and creator of practical Tarot for everyday intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure and embodied the taro along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing. Empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the taro. Welcome back to living Tarot. 

I’m really excited for today’s episode because it is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. Today in our episode, we’re going to be talking about how to ask Good questions in a tarot reading, but truly this goes above and beyond a tarot reading and into basically any type of reading that you could get whether it’s astrology, reiki, anything, really because we’re really going to talk about how to get down to the questions you really need to answer and how to ask them from a way and a perspective that empowers you, rather than taking your power away. So, getting down to debt to this, you might have heard in the past, or if you had an upbringing like mine, you might have some fear surrounding Tarot or reading Tarot. You might have this impression that the cards have some sort of supernatural abilities. And I’m really here today to kind of dissuade you from that idea. The cards themselves do not hold any supernatural power. Some people may disagree with me there. But that’s my opinion, the power really lies with the reader and the person who has come to sit down for a session. Or if you are the reader, it really lies with you. And one of the things that is really important is really the filter through which you put those cards. And what I’ve seen over time in the most powerful readings that I’ve done for myself and for clients, is that there’s a huge amount of value in the type of questions that are asked the way in which they are asked and asking in a structure that can start to empower you to make the best decisions for you.Rather than outsourcing your decision making to an inanimate object, a deck of cards. They’re beautiful They’re fabulous. They’re really, really wonderful. But ultimately, you are the one who really holds the answer or your reader is the one that really holds the answer for what’s best for you. So in my opinion, when we talk about the Tarot, we’re really talking about a mirror to human experience. So when you do a reading for yourself, or for someone else, it will really hold up a mirror, to maybe some of the blind spots that you’re experiencing, or some of the things you might not be being totally honest with yourself about. And there can be these moments of doing a reading for yourself that are extremely confronting, and uncomfortable, but also very necessary. And so I do think it’s really important to recognize that this is really meant to be a reflection place for us. And while especially for me and the way that I read can be somewhat predictive sometimes. But what’s more valuable than just having that predictive idea of what’s coming? is having a really heartfelt understanding of what questions you need to be asking and what answers you really need in the moment to make the best choice for yourself. So, questions should be very clear. They should offer information as well as support and action steps for how to move forward and how to really take the reading to the next level and bring it into your real life. So often when people come in for a reading, I Find there, they’re in one of a couple places. So often, they’re looking for advice, they might be struggling either with their partnership, or feeling like, you know, maybe they’re fighting a lot in their relationship. And I really encourage you when this stuff comes up, to really, to really offer yourself compassion, and to understand that, especially when it comes to relationship readings, that so many of us I mean, I will say truly, honestly, I come into this as well, come into a reading about relationships and really have a lot of emotion tied up in it, and can have an extremely, extremely difficult time, separating out how I feel from what’s coming in in the reading, and then asking for good advice about how to manage personally, because that’s the thing about these readings is they are extremely personal. It goes beyond, you know, kind of generalized advice or advice that our friends give us, or even advice that we get from therapists. I’m a huge proponent of therapy. But there can be such a personal connection that comes from doing a reading for yourself and such an ability to make it less personal and more reflective. And at the same time to offer yourself very specific advice about what it is that you are needing or what is lacking in that moment. And so, this is really where we can connect the reading that we’re doing for ourselves to real life and give ourselves some advice through that reflection. So it doesn’t mean that you, for example, instantly go home and break up with your significant other because you got the death card or something like that. After salutely not what I am saying. And really I encourage you not to read this way, because again, you’re giving away your power to an inanimate object, a deck of cards. And you’re also giving up any sense of completion, closure or understanding of what’s going to be a more effective way of asking questions so that you can really make good choices. So when we talk about asking good questions in a reading, there’s a couple things that come up right away for me. So having done thousands of readings at this point, I can tell you, if you are going in to have a reading with someone else. Just be honest. Don’t make the person guess not every reader is psychic First of all, and I think that’s a really important thing to point out.

Not every reader is psychic.  Personally would identify a psychic, I don’t like the word, I don’t really think it works in the traditional way that people think it does. So I don’t really like to identify myself that way. But I will say that I do have kind of a deeper understanding that I think goes beyond just the logical sense of things. But that said, What I find often happens in readings is that people are a little self conscious, or a little nervous, or just a little uncomfortable being vulnerable in front of a stranger, which God bless, I completely understand. I do not blame you, I know. But what often happens is people will come in and they’ll be a little bit cagey about what they really want to ask about, and they’ll say, oh, like maybe just like, give me a general reading, or just like, tell me about my career, and that’s great. I can absolutely do that. But then in the last 10 minutes of the reading, they’ll be like, oh, but I’m having some problems in my relationship. Can you dive in here? And I will tell you there are no dumb questions in a reading I would say about 50% or more of my readings are about relationships. And that is no shade to you. It is really important because relationships are a foundational part of being human and especially romantic relationships. And so, if you are experiencing that you don’t have to worry about being a cliche, this is what we all go through. It is so normal, and it is so normal to really need outside perspective when we are in a relationship because it is very emotionally charged and it is hard to get a clear picture for ourselves. So the first thing I will tell you, whether you are reading for yourself or going into get a reading for someone else, be honest about why you’re coming bring to the table, have that real serious talk with yourself. And if you’re not in a place where you are willing to be open or vulnerable with the person who’s reading for you, first of all, they might not be the right reader for you. And that’s okay also.

Or you might just have to suck it up and be a little bit uncomfortable in the moment. Or you might need to seek out somebody else who can give you a little bit more perspective. But it is important to be really honest about what your expectations are, when you’re coming into the reading. Because here’s the other thing. Even as someone who does identify a psychic, I will tell you, there are people who try to like test me when they come into a session. And I can do that. I can play that game and I can get to the bottom of it. But then I’ve spent a good you know, 10-15 minutes, trying to get to the bottom of just the question that you wanted to ask that you were trying to test me to see if I could figure out and you’re really ultimately wasting your time. So I am happy to play that game, if that is something that you want to do, but I don’t find it to be particularly productive. And when it is coming to something important, like relationship issues, and everything that’s going on, I really encourage you to come into a reading, being as honest about where you are in that relationship as possible. 

So for example, you wouldn’t show up at a lawyers office and say something vague, like I’m having a problem with my landlord, you would say, I’m having a problem with my landlord, they’re suddenly demanding twice as much rent and I’ve been a tenant for 16 months and this has been happening over the last three months or whatever it is, you would go in and you would give a lot of detail and it works the same way even if you are having a reading that would be determined as psychic or otherwise because there is so much more information than just what you providing. And when you put it on the person who is doing your reading as like a test, you’re really doing yourself a disservice of your time, the money that you’re spending and both of your energy. So we do encourage you to be really upfront about what you want not to be embarrassed, I promise. You could not surprise me with the question that you asked, you probably would be hard pressed to surprise another reader with the questions that you would ask. And people who do this kind of work tend to be extremely passionate about what you’re going through, because we have heard it all. We have seen it all. We have been through it all. And we have a deep sense of understanding and most of us that real sense of empathy. And so I have never had a reading with a client where I’ve judged them for wanting information on relationships. I am in a relationship myself. I know how heavy it can be at times, how stressful it can be, and especially right now with COVID-19 All of the extra pressure that can come up with that. So, I honor you and your questions and there is no question too crazy. It’s not my job as a reader to judge you. And all ethical readers know that and so if you come in and you are having an affair or you are thinking about having an affair or you’ve done something that you feel shitty about in your relationship, it is not my job to judge you for that it is only my job to give you answers and give you insight into what’s going on. So I do want to put that out there first because I do think it’s very, very important. 

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Now I will step back down off of m soapbox and get a little bit more into what kind of questions can be helpful. So what we ultimately want to do is ask questions in a way that will provide you with more information, but not make the decision for you. And so in a relationship reading, for example, this might look like asking questions such as how can I communicate more effectively with my partner? What’s going on that’s causing all this conflict in our relationship? How can I help move through that conflict How do I need to show up in this relationship? In order to be a better partner? Maybe there has been some sort of infidelity and you would like to know how can I repair this relationship? How can I rebuild trust with my partner? How can my partner rebuild trust with me? Or even things like how can I help myself move past this? Maybe even stuff like What does moving past this look like for me it? Do I have the capability to do this or what resources can I call on to help me move on from this? When it comes to infidelity, especially there can be a lot of complication. And a lot of extra questions tied up in that and when we bring those questions to friends and to people who love us, you know, they’ll be like, fuck that guy. He doesn’t deserve your attention. He doesn’t deserve your time. But in our hearts, we love that person. And so that’s not really helpful to hear. And we might feel like I’m, I’m in this I made a commitment. And I want to figure out how to make it work. And so getting a reading can be really helpful, because it can push on those spots where we are feeling some discomfort that we can’t quite put our finger on. And when we ask these questions in a way, that inform like, what is this pain? What is this stress that I’m pushing on right now? What is the insecurity that’s coming up for me? And how can I feel validated? Again, those can be really excellent questions because they don’t make a decision for you. They provide you with information so that you can make the best decision for yourself. Because maybe you go through and you ask all those questions and you find out you know what, this really is a deal deal breaker for me and I love this person, but I don’t know how to rectify this in my own mind, so I have to let it go. And that’s okay, but at least then You are making the decision from an informed place and not just letting the cards decide for you.

So I will say that when these more emotional topics come up, and it’s not just relationships, it can also be career stuff, where we have a lot of emotion and a lot of our inherent value tied up in the reading.So when we do these readings, we can really start to get some clarity that is not tied up in our own emotions. And if you are finding if you are a reader and you’re finding, hey, I keep reading on my relationship, or I keep reading on my career,and I’m so anxious right now, maybe it’s a career thing. I’m so anxious right now about COVID, I feel like I cannot get a clear reading on what to do in my career. I’m so anxious right now in my relationship, I feel like I can’t get a clear reading on how to get along with my partner. That’s also a really great time to outsource to someone else. So I get readings from other people not super often but if I do have a situation where or a relationship issue or something like that where I really feel like I am lacking clarity and not able to detach from the emotional side of things, I will reach out to a trusted friend who can give me some insight without having all that emotion wrapped up in it. So there are times where is also good to outsource. And I’ll go over that I’m sure in a future episode in more detail, but it is something good to recognize for yourself. So along with asking questions that are more open ended and can kind of provide you with different options and information to make decisions.

It’s also really good to think about looking at multiple options when we’re looking at our tarot readings. So when we have maybe several options in front of us, this happens a lot with career stuff where we might have a couple different ideas of how we would like things to look going forward. And when we look at each one of those paths, rather than saying, should I do this, should I do this? It can provide us with more information. So I’ll give you a little example. If we had a couple different options, so let’s say option A is staying at your current job. Option B is going and getting a job somewhere else. And option C is staying at your current job and working a little side job project. So if we looked at option A, and we got some stuff that was like, you know, 8 of swords feeling really trapped, and very compressed and very, very contained and not really able to grow moving forward. And then in going somewhere else, maybe we see 10 of pentacles reversed, not a lot of structure or not a lot of ability to grow. And then with options C, we saw the 9 of pentacles. And we thought, oh, okay, so this offers a lot more autonomy over our career. And this is a really important way to look at things because often, we think we have all the answers we think in our own minds that we know exactly how things should be. And, and we think we we’ve figured out the perfect career and all of that, and that might not be the case. And the cards can really reflect the reality of what we’re going to face in each of those options and they can show us both the good things so often when I do this reading, I will pull, you know, what will I experience in general? What will I experienced financially? And what will I experience long term with each of these options, because all of those things are relevant to decision making. It’s not just about me feeling career satisfaction, it’s also about me finding a financially stable career, or me finding longevity in that career. And so it’s very important that we look at different angles and not just a yes or no, because if you have something that you think is your dream job, and you say, Hey, I just got this offer from my dream company, and it’s my dream job, should I take it? And you get a No. What can you do it that really? It’s just very frustrating. And so it’s really important for you in that situation, to be able to step back a little bit. Look at the more holistic picture and ask questions like Hey, what might I experience if I accept this job, and maybe you find out something like, Oh, this new boss is a little bit of a micromanager or Oh, it’s gonna be a little difficult for me to climb the corporate ladder ladder, but I’m going to really like what I was doing. Or maybe this is kind of a short term stepping stone to something that would be better because I’ve had that happen before with clients, where they thought something was their dream job only to find out it was a stepping stone. And then maybe not really believe me in the reading, and then text me like two months later and say, Hey, so you were right. I thought that this was the long term dream job. And then I was here a couple months realized things weren’t great and got headhunted by another company. So it ended up being a stepping stone to a bigger thing. So it is important to have that in mind, because it can help us make the best decisions for us long term. Had we not had that conversation where I said to her Hey, I I think this is a stepping stone to something else, she might have immediately shot down other opportunities that were presented to her. But because she had more of an open mind because of conversations we had, she heard them out when they reached out to her and realized that there was a lot more advancement possible at that other company, and that she would be able to make things work better for her life, and the flexibility that she was looking for with that other position. And so those kind of questions can be extremely, extremely helpful for us.

So beyond just answering these questions,we can also get some insight about what resources we have to make this steps forward. And this can be resources like money. Sure. It can also be resources like other people so especially when it comes to career work. For example, we can ask questions of the Tarot, like, what resources do I have to move towards my dream job? What people can I get in contact with that could really help me out towards the direction that I want to go. And those questions can really light some things up in our minds that we hadn’t really considered before. And I experienced this very often in career readings with people where I will give some sort of insight and when we ask questions about what resources they have, I will mention something that I see coming up in the cards and they’ll be like, Oh my gosh, I totally was out of touch with this person, but they just emailed me the other day, and they were asking about what I was up to, I’m going to reach out to them and let them know that I’m looking for work in this area or whatever. 

And asking those questions when we when we really ask in a way where we are asking for support. When we were asking about how to be better resource can really help us to make better decisions because then we don’t feel like we’re as alone in the decisions that we’re making. And so that’s much more valuable than saying yes or no. Should I do this? Should I take this job? So ultimately, whenever you’re thinking about creating spreads, asking questions, when you go in for a reading, you really want to try to come from a place of empowering yourself, rather than having the other person tell you what to do, and I get it. It is very easy to give your power away to someone else, especially in this day and age. When we are dealing with a global pandemic, a civil uprising, and a social justice movement that is emotional and overwhelming at times. It can be very easy for all of us to want to just opt out and have somebody else tell us what to do. We’re all exhausted. We don’t want to make too decisions. We are in a full on trauma state long term. And so it can be really overwhelming to make decisions. But you’re not really doing yourself a favor by opting out of your own life. And so it’s important that when we come into a reading, whether it’s for ourselves or with someone else, that we’re asking questions in a way that empowers us and inspires our decision making process, and informs us and helps us to see the challenge and the answer with clarity and with recognizing how we enter into these different situations. So perhaps you are a person that’s extremely emotional, and you’re in our personal relationships and you know, you are really hard time being neutral in romantic relationships. It can be extremely helpful. I am right there with you my friend. I am absolutely right there with you. I am always coming into readings about romantic relationships, and interpersonal relationships with a lot of emotion. And it can be really difficult for me to ask questions in a way that it’s constructive instead of just being like, just tell me what to do. Just tell me how to fix everything. I get it. I’m with you. And I’m only laughing because I’ve experienced it myself. And so it’s really important to ask these questions in a way that kind of forces us out of our comfort zone a little bit, and also forces us to take responsibility for advocating for ourselves. And when we ask questions in this way, that empower us and force us to be our own advocate. It’s extremely powerful. So I hope that gives you a little bit to think about in terms of how to ask questions when you are coming in for a tarot reading, or when you’re creating spreads. are asking questions for yourself. 

I would love to hear any feedback you might have about this episode, it kind of turned some gears or some things kind of clicked into place when you were hearing this. I love having these conversations about this. And I’ve really found it to be an incredibly potent way for me to go deeper with my own personal readings and with my readings for clients. So that’s all I have for you today. I will see you back here in the next episode.

Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you love today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me @starsagespirit and let me know what you learned what surprised you and what you’d like to hear even more of As always, if you want to hear more more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episode show notes you can head over to

Creativity, Intuitive Decision-Making & Embodying the Fool With Tanya Gallagher

Tanya Gallagher

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In this episode I speak with Tanya Gallagher and a Seattle Based author and entrepreneur and one of my oldest friends.  In this episode Tanya and I discuss how an early leap of faith in dropping out of college and moving across the country for a brand new relationship set her up for a lifetime of trusting her Intuition. She is the true embodiment of the Fool card because of her ability to jump into creativity and wholeheartedly and surrender to her intuition.

  • We discuss how the importance of having a relationship with your inner guidance system and how that can help you navigate doubt from the people around you.
  • We talk about the challenges of changing identity and allowing yourself to create your own value system.
  • Tanya talks about how she was drawn to writing about love and how reinvention has played an important part in both her writing and her career.
  • We discuss how creativity and intuition work together and how Tanya has been able to make challenging decisions easier by trusting her intuition.

Tanya also talks about ways that she has used her intuition to improve her writing so that she could write nine books all while running a business with her husband, having a full-time job, and being a mom.

Connect with Sheila:

Book a Tarot or Reiki session at or find her on Instagram

Connect with Tanya: and on Instagram and read her brand new Awkward Arrangements series here:

Book 1 – The Fake Date Agreement

Book 2 – Renting with the Rival 

Book 3 – Pickup Lessons – out 9/14

Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure and embodied the taro along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing. Empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the Tarot. 

Welcome back to living Tarot. I am so delighted this week to have one of my oldest friends, Tonya Gallagher, on the podcast. Tanya is a Seattle based writer, entrepreneur. footie and cake lover by day, she’s a user experience writer in the tech industry, helping make tech more approachable and easier to understand. By night. She’s the author of contemporary romances about smart, strong women, and the men who love them, and co founder of Penchant, a brand of luxury body care products designed to enhance life’s pleasures. So I’m really excited about this episode, we jumped in. And it just so happened that for my first episode interview that I happened to choose a friend who was the full card. I’m really excited about this episode in particular, because we’re really talking about what it means to surrender to intuition in instances that don’t make a ton of sense. So I hope you get a lot out of this week’s episode. Please share your feedback. We’d love to hear about it and let’s dive right in.

So welcome Tanya. I’m so excited that you’re here. We’ve known each other a long time. And I know everything about you, but can you tell us who you are what you do? Just give us kind of the short Cliff’s notes version of yourself.

Tanya Gallagher  2:13  

Sure. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I’m super excited to be here today. My name is Tanya, I am a writer and entrepreneur based in the Seattle area. By day I write for the tech industry. By night, I write romances and also own personal lubricant company. So that’s the short notes.

Sheila M  2:35  

I love it. I love it. And a little bit of background, Tanya and I have known each other since we were in high school. So just babies. it’s like 20 years now, which I can’t believe. But I’ve kind of had the chance and the opportunity to witness a huge chunk of your life which is not the case with most of my guests. And I’ve kind of had the option opportunity to see how over time you’ve used your intuition. And really kind of made these decisions that to outsiders might seem crazy, but to you, like seemed very in alignment. So I want to start by talking about kind of like the earliest time that I can think of where I really saw you do this and that was when we were in college, you actually made the decision to leave your college drop out and move across the country, which at the time, I was like, holy shit, this is crazy. Like, what is she thinking? Can you talk to us like a little bit about about that experience? And what was going on leading up to that and then kind of take us through the move and everything?

Tanya Gallagher  3:49  

Yeah, of course. Um, so I guess the first thing is, when it came to college, I wound up at a school in Boston, where I was pursuing a bunch of creative endeavors and it was a really wonderful school. But it was not the right school for me. And I went through about a year and a half there and got more and more unhappy. And it wasn’t because there weren’t wonderful people. And it wasn’t because the classes weren’t great. It was just something within me that wasn’t feeling quite right about it. And I got to a point where I was ready to leave school, I said, Hey, I’m dropping out. It wasn’t. I’m gonna, you know, pause and come back at a later point. It was like this is feel so wrong to me that I’m just going to leave with no backup plan. And I think that was a super scary decision at that point. 

Sheila M  4:40  

I’m sure it was you were what like 19- 20. Yeah.

Tanya Gallagher  4:46  

And I think it was scarier for the people around me though. I think because you get there gets to a certain point when you are not listening to your intuition, and then it kind of bubbles up in these like no moments. I think the best part of intuition is when you get these yeses and you know what the right thing is. But this leaving college was kind of an example of a No, that was so strong that it couldn’t ignore it anymore. And I knew that continuing to stay the course in school, which is kind of the traditional thing to do, was just gonna make me more on B. And I think that’s the thing. You have this path that you think you’re supposed to be given, right? Like, you go through high school, and then you graduate, you go to college, you graduate, you get a job, and you do all these different things, but there’s kind of a prescribed order, at least that’s the story that you’re told. Yeah, right.

Sheila M  5:36  

Yeah, absolutely. And I think especially because again, I have known you for a long time. You were very academically gifted and always really successful in school. And I think especially when you are a person who’s really smart, there’s like, it’s just assumed that you will do all of these things and you will follow this path and I, one of the things that I talked to people a lot about is how like you’re saying, like a lot of people can recognize and “No”. But then, like, don’t know how to put that up against everybody else’s expectations. You know what I mean? Which is exactly what you’re talking about.

Tanya Gallagher  6:13  

Yeah, I think at the time when I was in high school and even early college, I think I got a lot of external validation from doing well in school, right? This is great. You’re top of the class, like I got a scholarship to the school that I just dropped out of just walked away from a lot of money. And you realize, like, that’s not what’s making you happy. And so just kind of letting go ahead is really important. And I think as soon as I walked away, and like put in my notice that I’m leaving school, it was such a weight lifted off my shoulders and you just know from that, that like, this is the right thing. And so having no plan, I moved back home to my parents house. Luckily, they welcomed me back and I started working two jobs. Just trying to make some money while I figured out my next steps. In there, I also happened to meet my now husband. He and I had actually met in school. And we had a very long story of being friends and then having these random encounters of visiting each other across the country. And at that point, after I had left school, right things were turning around, I was listening to myself and not everybody else, and fell in love with him online. And we knew each other in person for less than six months when-  I’m sorry we knew each other in person for less than a week. And when six months after I dropped out of school, I moved in with him across the country in Los Angeles. So I have that two jobs short term, and manage to transfer one of them out to Los Angeles. Just as a retail job and I could get an opportunity there just to have something to learn this because I was flying across the country with, you know, limited resources and no plan other than let’s move in with this guy.

Sheila M  8:12  

So, okay, so I have to I have to pause you there, because what was it about your husband that you were like yeah, I for sure cuz like even if you’re like yeah this guy’s great and your intuitions like yeah let’s you know let’s date this person but to then move across the country into what I assume was probably a small apartment with somebody that you hadn’t spent a lot of like in person time with – what was it about him and like those conversations that you guys had that made you feel comfortable taking such like a big leap and I’m sure comfortable is not the right word, but I guess confident enough to do it.

Tanya Gallagher  8:56  

Yeah, I wish there was something more than intuition, oh here are these things are logical and they add up. And honestly, I have what are called these “oh shit” moments where you go through life and you realize, Oh shit, this is gonna be a big deal. And sometimes it hits you out of nowhere. And that was kind of me and Ian. And we found each other. He came to visit me in Pennsylvania again, I was living there. He was home from Los Angeles to visit his family for the winter holidays. And when he came to see me, it was like, Oh, shit, this is the right thing. And so yeah, this was we dated online, which was pre webcam. I guess I should say we had webcam, but there was no audio attached to it. So you would just have us talking at each other and then like typing at the same time, um, but it was just this, this connection of knowing that this person gets To me, and I think the fact that I was in my most vulnerable state, right, like I had just left school, I had no plan, I think allowed me to kind of tap into like, what didn’t feel right. And he felt right. And I always talked about going to Los Angeles. I grew up acting and doing theater and said, Hey, like, that could be a fun thing to do. Like the entertainment industry is in LA. Why not go explore that? Even though I had no immediate plans, like it just felt like there was an interesting opportunity there. Um, but more importantly, like he was the right person. And, and so yeah, I’ve gone Come on a plane. And my parents did make him come fly home to Los Angeles together. They’re like, you’re not getting on a plane alone. He’s coming to get you if you’re moving in with this boy. So he came to get me and we flew to LA and moved in together. And that was 15 years ago. More than that, more than that. Yeah.

Sheila M  11:02  

Yeah. I mean, so. Okay. So you move across the country and how did it feel like as soon as you, got there and you were like settling in, were you still like, yeah, this is right. Or were you like, oh, shit I might have made a mistake? Wait, did you have any doubt as as you were kind of transitioning into that?

Tanya Gallagher  11:25  

Not for me, I think part of it was because we had seen each other in person. So little, there is still that element of Okay, now he had to fall in love in person and get that physical aspect. And we have this really strong emotional connection, because all we did was talk online other than that week of visits back and forth. And so this was kind of like getting to fall in love with each other in a different way, which was really nice. And that said, it didn’t arrive in Los Angeles have we lived in a small house With five people total, another couple, one single guy and us. And the very first day, all the roommates knew we were moving in, and they threw a party for their own friends not like a welcome Tania party. So I walk off a plane to my new house, state where, you know, I visited once, and there’s a party in my house. So it’s a very weird experience coming in, but it was just a matter of rolling with it. And I think that’s what we continue to do.

Sheila M  12:30  

Yeah, yeah. So I know, that was like, kind of the first step for you. Do you feel like especially doing something like that at such a young age? Do you feel like that made you bolder in terms of making some of these other pivots later in your life where you were kind of like I’ve already done this, so now I feel comfortable.

Tanya Gallagher  12:52  

Yeah, absolutely. I think having a precedent of, well, I did the scary thing of leaving, you know, my plane With no other plan in place, let me know that I would like no matter what I would be okay. And I think more and more over time I’ve let go of that, you know, top performing student expectation of myself that type a grade A person and leaned more and more into my intuition and to making those pivots as needed. Because that’s what feels right. And I have the faith and the trust. After you know, that experience proved me right to continue leaving and and continue trusting those choices, even though they might seem illogical on the outside.

Sheila M  13:40  

So after that, what came next for you? What was kind of the next big intuitive pull that you had to do something a little bit different?

Unknown Speaker  13:49  

Yeah, I think the next big thing was leaving my job in the aerospace industry. So I need to back up and say that when I first came to Los Angeles I went to a recruiter to try to find a new job. Because I knew I needed something stable. I wasn’t planning to go back to school anytime soon, I knew I would look when the time felt right for me. But I needed something right because now I was living on my own with my boyfriend did to pay the bills. And I ended up finding a job in the aerospace industry and as a salesperson or account management. So taking care of people getting to use my communication skills, and really help him help our customers throughout the entire customer journey. And they I think I was really good at my job, but it didn’t mean that I liked my job. And I think there’s a big difference in finding the thing that’s right for you and finding a thing that you can do like just because you can do something doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be happening up. Yeah, yeah. Am I kind of got more and more unhappy, being in that role, and my company wasn’t a great company that appreciated me or where I was really using my full talents, and had my daughter. So she was about a year old. And we said, You know what, I think it’s time to find something different and move to Seattle. And Seattle just was just a place. I have no family here. But it was a place that we felt really called to. And so I convinced my company to move me out to Seattle. And when I was here, started building other plans. And I needed to get out of that company, even though you know, it was a really great blessing that I was able to still have a job and move with some stability. That at a certain point isn’t worth being unhappy in your role. And so my husband and I am behind the scenes. We’re working to build our company penchant. And that was kind of this next big pivot of Okay, like, we’re onto something, let’s totally get off the beaten path of here’s a job that we’re employed by other people. Now we’re doing our own thing. And so that was kind of a big shift too.

Sheila M  16:14  

Yeah, so a couple things I really want to talk about that you hit on there. So first of all, the idea that just because you’re good at something doesn’t mean that you like it. I think it’s so important. And it’s another one of those things that like, brings us up against like logic and reason. I’m so good at this thing. I’m rewarded for doing this thing. I’m paid a lot of money for doing this thing. And that was like my experience with my first job out of school. I did event planning for quite a few years because again, I was trying to convince myself that I liked it. And I was really good at it. I got right out of school and I took to it right away and had very like high profile clients and I was really good at the job but I didn’t like it and it took me like a while to figure that out. And I do think that there’s a lot of people that have that impulse where they’re like, I know something isn’t right. Like they’re hearing that no, like you’re saying, but they don’t know how to shift out of it. They’re like, but no, I’m good at this, like, I’m good at this thing. Like, it’s fine. I’m good at it. And so I love that you talked about that, because I do think that’s really important. And then when you’re talking about making this shift into a more entrepreneurial job, what was it that really inspired you to create your product? With Penchant? Because I like I’ve been curious about this, for as long as you’ve had the company is like, what really inspired this?

Tanya Gallagher  17:41  

Yeah, well, um, Penchant is a really interesting one, because, again, the company produces personal lubricants and other body care products. And that is definitely not something you would normally put on a resume if you’re coming from the corporate world. But it was something where We’re looking to build a business that was online and flexible. Because have we worked on as a side business, we have worked in the wedding photography industry for about 10 years. And that was my weekend gig. And that was my husband’s full time job at a certain about to a certain point where we wanted something where are we we’re not trading our hours for dollars, where we had a product that we were selling online, that people could get 24/7, and that we could have some more control in our pipeline and our spending and people to scale our income. And so there are a couple things you’re looking for, you know, just product criteria, like we wanted to be lightweight, so it didn’t have to cost a lot to ship and various other things. And Ian was the one who actually was doing some research and came to me with the idea of personal lubricant. And we were looking at thermometers before that, so how Let’s say big shift, right? 

Sheila M  19:02  

Way less sexy for sure,

Tanya Gallagher  19:03  

Yeah WAY less sexy. And he came to me in the middle of the night and said, I got this idea. I found our product. And I started laughing. But it was again that like, knee jerk reaction of Yep, that’s the one. And I think it’s because it’s a space that people don’t talk about all that much. But they certainly use lube, right. And it’s a very natural, normal part of wife and sex and humans, but we don’t talk about it. So that meant it was kind of an underserved niche, where we felt like we could come in and we can make a difference and give you a product that you felt really good having on your bedside tables that you weren’t ashamed about where we were celebrating, you know, your access to life’s pleasures, and just making you feel good. 

Sheila M  19:47  

So I love that so much. And I like I love the whole journey into it and like those ideas that kind of pop up in the middle of the night. And I think it’s so interesting. How you kind of you knew what you want it to do, but you didn’t like start with lube you were kind of feeling a couple of different ideas in your head. And I think that’s so interesting that like, again, it’s like you hear it and you just kind of know i think that’s so cool. I’m really really, really exciting. Um, so from there, I know it took a lot to kind of get that off the ground Did you have moments through that process where maybe like doubt crept in, did it feel like the right thing the whole time? And then like, once you once you kind of had the final product and we’re starting to get sales and get, you know, placements at different stores and everything. What was that experience like for you and did you did you feel like excitement and like, a strong yes the whole time or did you have like Doubts along the way.

Tanya Gallagher  21:01  

Yeah, I think for me, there was a lot of yeses along the way. And knowing that I was in that aerospace job, when we first started exploring building our own business, it was really powerful, really powerful for me to see something that really got excited by and, and I think one of the scary things is that there was a sort of high barrier to entry. Because when you’re looking at manufacturing products, you have to put out a certain amount of money. You might have minimum order quantities or values that you need to fulfill for companies to even say, yes, they will manufacture this. This is not something that I’m making in my backyard. You know, we’re working with labs and getting this all done in the right way. And I think that aerospace background as much as I disliked being in that industry and having that job. It really taught me a lot about running businesses on the big scale. Because I had multimillion dollar clients, I was responsible for the top 12 customers in our company. And that was something where those kind of big transactions didn’t scare me. And I think could have been very scary. But I was trying to approach it with this business mindset of, hey, we’re starting this business, we’re not even Tanya running this business, we are a business going out there and investing the way that a business needs to in order to get the products and the supply chain lined up. And I think that was a really helpful mindset to be in where it felt less scary. And certainly there’s like, Oh, my gosh, my money is tied up in this thing that could totally fail. Because it takes a while to even you know, get everything up and running. And so there was you know, that period of Okay, well hope it works. But there’s nothing prouder than the moment you know, you’re holding your first product in your hands and go wow, okay, like we did this and it was very successful right away, which was surprising. And I think that was another one of those oshit moments really, oh, it’s, it’s going well, like this is better than we could have expected it to do wonderful like, and maybe I’m that much closer to leaving the aerospace company. And that was really, really fun. Um, and I think it gave me the confidence to when the time was right. Walk away from the aerospace company and just be very happy doing that.

Sheila M  23:32  

Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s another thing. I think we’ve all had that moment where we know we made the right decision, especially when it comes to career stuff when you’re like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and then you finally get to get out and and have that experience. And I love that. I love how, like how you kind of talked about moving along the way and figuring out Yes, a lot of stuff is tied up in this but I think we’re going to be okay. And, and, and having that kind of immediate success to validate your experience, I’ve guess probably also made it a little bit easier to be like, yeah, this was, this was the right thing. So that’s one of those ones where I think it’s easier to look back and say, yeah, I’m certain about this. Did you get feedback from other people in your life? When you guys were were kind of like starting this project? Did you like where you’re like, were your parents on board? Were like your friends like you’re doing what? And did you have like you said, Did you have any hesitation about it? Because you came from a corporate background where you were like, okay, now this is going to be on my resume. It’s going to be like a polarizing thing, or were you not worried about it at all?

Tanya Gallagher  24:47  

Yeah, well, I definitely made the decision to use a pen name and just to separate some of my my day job life from this life in case it didn’t work out. I wanted to make sure that, you know, there was some separation there. But I think the funniest memory that I have is telling my dad that I was starting a lube company, and my dad is sort of more on the conservative side. Um, and I was still working for the aerospace company. And I was traveling and I was in an airport and I was telling my dad, okay, like, I’m starting this business, I got this product in mind, and he sent me a text message and says, Well, what is it? I was like, Oh, God, I can’t I can’t do this over text. Like call my dad in the middle of this airport, like looking around saying who’s listening in on this? One side of the conversation about Yeah, dad that we’re gonna start a lube company. Um, but it worked out. He received it very well. And it’s always really strange when your parents become your biggest fans of business like this because you’re like, please, let’s leave that You know, in the corner, let’s not talk about it. You can support me from afar. I don’t need to know about it. Um, but I think the precedent that I had set of leaving school and moving in McKeon and all those different choices that seemed, again, a logical from the outside, I think set people up to recognize that I was no longer in a position to do the normal thing or follow anybody else’s rules or guidelines. And I was kind of turning my own course. And so it my dad, again, very happy, you know, to support that and continue continues to support me.

Sheila M  26:41  

Yeah, yeah. That’s really good, though, that you that you have that kind of support. And I mean, I I’ve also known your family for a long time. So I know they’re kind of, you know, behind you, 100%. And I think that’s like, it’s really awesome. Maybe a little too enthusiastic sometimes.

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From from starting Penchant, and then having that become more and more successful. You again made more pivots. So let’s talk about kind of like your next big step after after starting that.

Tanya Gallagher  28:50  

Yeah, so my next big step was to enter the tech industry. And so pension is still up and running and alive and well. But it got to a point where my husband and I were both doing their full time. And we said, you know, this is great. But from a household resources standpoint, we may had some more stability back in our lives if we have multiple sources of income. And that was a good call. And it allowed the business to grow further because the business no longer had to support both incomes. And so it allowed it to become even more successful than if we had both been doing it. And when we made the decision as a family that hey, you know, we should probably take a look at what’s out there. I started applying for different jobs. And, again, I think it was really hard to make a pivot, because my resume said, I’ve worked in the aerospace industry. I’ve been a recruiter, I’ve done all these other things, and not what I wanted to do, which is on the creative side. Throughout my life, I’ve been a writer, I’ve always loved storytelling. I’ve always worked on books behind the scenes, and I really really wanted to find something that would make me happy, having learned that the aerospace industry, and that kind of rigidity was not for me, right. Um, and so in addition to doing Penchant, one of the things I was kind of doing behind the scenes was I was working on some blog management for for an entrepreneur. And I was also doing some young adult novel writing. And so I mentioned these because these are important in the next step, which is I get my resume out there. And I’m going through all these job boards, and I found a job that looked super boring on the outside. It’s like, Hey, you need to do repetitive tasks, and you need to look at a lot of data. And I’m like, No, thanks. So I moved on. And then I got a call from a recruiter who says, hey, I’ve got this job. She sends me over the job description and it’s the same job that I was like, no, that’s not the right one for me. But then she used words to describe what was actually happening in this job. And it was super interesting. They couldn’t say a lot about it at the time because it was kind of a new project. But basically, it was an opportunity to shape the voice for a digital assistant. So think about Siri or Cortana, something along those lines. And so as soon as I had that conversation and learned what the job was, I said, Sure, toss my name in the hat. That sounds really fun. And they wanted somebody who could write dialogue. And so that’s where that young adult novel comes into play. I had a contract for young adult novel that I had sold. And so I was able to use that as my portfolio and bring forth that blog management as well. All those things I was doing in the background, was able to bring forth pensions then didn’t say was my company, but I said, hey, I’ve been doing you know, blogging, management, social media, outreach, writing, and all of those things came together. And it was the fastest interview I’ve ever had. I had a 30 minute call. 30 minutes later. I got it. Yes, we’d like to hire you. And so super exciting.

Sheila M  32:04  

That is so crazy. I can’t even imagine. I feel like every interview process I’ve gone through, especially for like big companies has been like slow as molasses. It always takes twice as long as they say it’s going to, it’s always like 20 rounds of interviews, you know. So I think I think that’s so I think it’s so funny that you like looked at the job. And we’re like, no, that sounds boring. And then it was like the personal engagement and the fact that somebody reached out to you about that job that you had seen. I think there’s like, so fascinating. It’s like such a, they were like, wait, take a second look.

Tanya Gallagher  32:40  

Yeah, exactly like hello. But also, it just goes to show you how much the right words make a difference. And that’s my job these days. So I was working as this digital agent, writer for a little while, about a year and a half. And then an opportunity for different role came up in the UX writing world. Same tech company, but I got a referral from my boss in the digital agent world. She’s like, we love you, we want you to keep working for this company. Here’s another role that we think you’d be great at. And that’s what I’m doing today. And that was definitely making a lot of shifts and just being open to things coming my way. And it was just became more and more fun. Yeah, the opportunity is great.

Sheila M  33:27  

I love that. I love that. And then kind of Finally, like you said, You have written books in the past, but I know it’s a big part of your life right now. Aside from your day job, you kind of do it all. And so what made you want to you know, add one more thing to your your to do list?

Tanya Gallagher  33:52  

Yeah, well, I’m writing again, it’s always been part of what I love to do. I never knew that I could have a day job writing and In a way that felt really fun. And so I always did this creative writing behind the scenes. And that young adult novel I had a contract for and then the publishing house never actually published it because the line that they were doing folded. And so I had this unpublished book and like, well, Alright, there you go, I guess I got the experience of writing a book. And I realized it doesn’t have to be as scary as you make it out to be or as it can be in your head when you say write a novel, right? And so it’s just piece by piece, putting things together. And I always love the idea of telling stories. I think there’s something really fun about that. Especially given, you know, my background, and the fact that I super believe in love and pleasure and letting yourself enjoy those things. And so I kind of dovetailed really nicely with the work that I had done with penchant. So I said, Hey, well, I’ve already got this pen name established, why don’t I use it? And so in September of this year, my ninth book will be published, which is super exciting.

Sheila M  35:02  

Yeah, we’ve that, oh my gosh, no, I saw you post about it the other day. And I was like, Oh my god, it is nine books. Like, I just like, I think it’s like, if you’re on the outside, and I do a lot of like e-reader stuff, so I, like don’t even realize half the time, like, how many books are on there. And then I like went back through and I was like, no, it’s, it’s nine, but like, this is going to be the ninth book, which I think is insane. And it’s so exciting to me. And especially because the creative process, even when you are following your intuition can be so painful. Like, like giving birth. You know, it’s like you’re you’re this full creation and I think I was hoping you could talk about that a little bit. Because I think sometimes when people think that you have an intuitive idea or you have something that’s like really in alignment, that that means that it’s easy, and I was hoping you could say About a little bit.

Tanya Gallagher  36:02  

Yeah, well, definitely writing a book is a lot of steps, a lot of process of writing the book is the first part, if you want to have perceived publication, it is also totally okay just to write a book for you, because that’s all you want to do. And you never have to have it, you know, published if you don’t want to. So just putting that out there that whatever you do that’s right for you. But I knew I wanted to work toward getting this published as well. And that is a lot of other steps. I pursued the indie publication route, where I work with editors and cover artists and a bunch of folks to help bring the book to life once I’ve written it. And so that’s a bunch of a bunch of steps in process to go through. But I think the important thing is to realize where you’re getting in your own way. And when you have this intuitive idea or something that you’re following. And for me, I realized that quotation marks were getting in my way and so rate, you need quotation marks and dialogue when you’re writing a story. But I was blocking my flow when I was actually sitting down to type things. And so I recognize that and I started saying, Well, I know this is dialogue, so why don’t I just write it without the tags. And then when I’m editing, and I’m doing that more critical thinking piece of it, I can go back in and kind of do follow the rules, right? And so trying to take some of those rules away and like, get the book out of you was kind of the first step for me. And, and I think, the more you go through it, and the more you know, and the more you get comfortable with any sort of project, the more I realize every book is different, and everyone comes out differently. But a lot of times I find that when something feels tough in the writing. For me, it’s because I’ve gone astray somewhere. So even though I tend to plot my novels, so I have an idea of where I’m Going each time, that doesn’t mean that it’s always the right thing. And so sometimes when you’re in it, the creative process takes over and you realize, like this, I feel like I’m forcing this and that means it’s wrong. So I have to go back and I look like I take a couple steps back and find out where’s the point that it starts feeling wrong and hard? And then usually that’s a point where I need to reevaluate and make a different choice. So

Sheila M  38:26  

That’s so interesting. I love, I love how you describe that to you because I hear that sometimes from people and I also think especially when it is creative people have this idea that like everything just kind of like flows right out and it’s like no problem. But I also think it can get a little bogged down because especially and I truly believe that like all creative pursuits, so like art and writing anything acting is like kind of like a different channel. You know, you’re like channeling something. And I know Just from the work that I do when I do like a mediumship reading, sometimes even when I do a tarot reading, it feels like there are so much coming through so fast, it is hard for me to like, even get it out of my mouth. And I’m just speaking when I’m doing these things. I’m not like writing it all down. And so what is your experience like with that? And and how do you kind of manage? If If you have those moments where you’re like, Oh, this big idea is coming through and I feel like I can’t keep up with it. Does that? Is that something that you experience?

Tanya Gallagher  39:28  

Yes. And my trick is dictation. So I like turning on my phone app. I’m literally just the notes on my phone and starting to talk to myself, because I can talk faster than I can type. And so I find it helps keep that mental flow of ideas coming. And And so that kind of helps me keep going but it can become overwhelming at times. And I think the biggest thing for me though, is to take a step back and recognize like what is the big picture ideas Because the details, sometimes I can, I can add those in later. But having the framework and the outline for me is really helpful. Like, where is the story going? And when I know that the details will come back, and I can fill those in. And those are the kinds of things that you might go back and tweak later on anyway as you go through an edit. So for me, it’s Yeah. All right, let’s start with the big picture. And if that’s there’s a lot of things competing, like, let’s get that down first. But definitely, I’ve had characters who will just speak to me, I know that always sounds like such a weird thing to say. But there are definitely characters who show up and they’re like, I’m going to tell you what’s up and you just just try to hang on and write down what they say. And you can put it in when it makes sense later, but just trying to capture the moments as they come.

Sheila M  40:47  

I love that too. And I remember when I came out to visit last year, we like talked about that a little bit and I was like, doesn’t sound weird to me at all. You know, like I talk to spirits all the time. It’s not that weird, it just, you know, you just, it’s what’s normal for you. And so if you could kind of like in totality, and kind of look back at all of these different steps that you’ve taken following your intuition if you could kind of like I don’t know how I would put it but , if you could tell yourself your 19 year old self who was like about to, fly across the country to move in with this guy that you’d only spent a week with in person, what would you like now Tanya, tell 19 year old Tanya, to kind of what piece of advice I guess would you give to yourself to to help you kind of move through all of these these moves over the years? And what advice would you give to other people?

Tanya Gallagher  41:54  

Yeah, I think the advice that I would give to myself, which is also the advice that I hear when I like tune into my inner voice and it’s just ask, Hey, how are things going, is just, it’s all gonna be okay. All as well. And like, that sounds so simple, but you’re always okay in every moment just recognizing the okayness of yourself. And that you have the the endurance and the flexibility, and the ability to pivot so that you will be okay in any circumstance and to just keep trusting yourself over and over again, things will continue to come up that will challenge you, but trusting that you know, the right thing for yourself, is really the way to go and just keep listening to you to that inner voice and try to tune into it as much as you can. And sometimes I feel like when I’m not listening, those are the moments that I get the most blocked or the most challenged or frustrated, but kind of re centering yourself knowing that it’s going to be okay, and coming back to your inner voice and tuning in is the best thing.

Sheila M  42:56  

Yeah. Um, so we’re almost done. But I do want you to To talk just a little bit about this project that you have coming out in September. I know it’s kind of part of a larger project. So if you can tell us like a little bit about what you’re working on.

Tanya Gallagher  43:12  

Yeah, so the book that’s coming out in September is called Pick Up Lessons. It is the third book in the Awkward Arrangements series. And I just wanted to write something that felt real and fun and romantic comedy series. So each book follows a different couple, but it’s a bunch of friends throughout the story. So people show up again and again, but you can read each book individually. And, and I think over time, I’ve just gotten really into the idea of good guys. Like, there’s definitely like the jerk persona, but like, there’s also something to be said about, hey, here’s a guy that if I met in real life, like would be a good person for me, even if there are challenges along the way. So these are low, angst books. They’re fun, they’re sexy, they’re flirty, and you should Pick them up.

Yeah, yeah, and I’ve read I’ve read the first two so far. Love them.  Very easy reads like and that’s the other thing too for everything that’s going on in the world right now. One of the things that I love is it’s like a little mini escape for for like a day and I’m like it’s just it’s so nice to just read something that’s like very fun and like, kind of exciting and and light and like you said low angst because I feel like if there was ever for low angst, it’s right now for sure. So I I love I love that description. So I will have the link in the show notes to order that series and so everybody can find it if they’re looking for it. But the last thing that I really wanted to talk about before we play a fun little game is where where I really kind of see you in the Tarot. So, in all of these archetypes in the Tarot, they all recommend different human experiences. And so when I was thinking about you, and I knew I really wanted to have you on and I knew I wanted to have you on early in the podcast. I was like, you know, Tanya, and this is not an insult, even though the word kind of insult, but I was like, you know, Tonya really embodies the Fool card in the best possible way because it really is about taking that leap of faith and even down to the advice that you said you kind of give yourself is like all it’s gonna be okay, like it’s gonna work out, you know. And I think being able to kind of take that leap and trust that you’re going to have the resources to figure it out along the way. Or if you don’t, that you can outsource to someone else who can help you. And I think is really cool. And I think a lot of the time the Fool kind of gets a bad rap as being like reckless. But I think whenever we’re talking about making these huge steps in life, and And I mean, all of the huge steps for all of us things like getting married, you know, like, that’s a huge deal. That is somebody you’re committing to forever. And it’s a huge leap of faith, you know, and taking that step and especially for you from from leaving school like something extremely untraditional, especially for someone, like coming from our background where like everybody goes to school, everybody gets their bachelor’s degree, at least if not like, more education, and then kind of always being able to pivot when things weren’t feeling right for you. It’s like, it’s such a Fool card thing because you’re always ready to kind of reset and like start over. And there’s no issue there. And it is not a skill that a lot of people have. And I was like, you know, the more I thought about your entire journey, and everything that you’ve gone through, I was like she really has this element, but also um The like, secondary one that came up for me was the knight of swords, because I really see you, being someone who can kind of like just charging 100% even if, like you said, you’re not quite sure where all the pieces are going to land. And again, there can be this kind of reckless element. But I think that there’s always some of that that needs to happen, especially with the writing like to be able to just kind of charge in and, and it is really about being able to bring that like intellectual piece down to earth where you’re like, this is all like cerebral, it’s all in my head and I have to kind of bring it down to earth. And even if I think about your day job working in user experience for a tech company, it’s literally like you have to piece through all of this like very techie stuff, and you have to walk the line between being like that person who can kind of bring it into reality, and not have it be too like, technical and like have it be somewhat Natural. And I think there’s a huge, there’s a huge need to just kind of like you just kind of like jump into things. And I think it’s it’s really interesting because I, myself am like much more cautious person much more risk averse. And even though I do have that strong connection with my intuition, I still have like a lot of moments where I’m like, is this really what I’m doing? I don’t know about that. So I did want to talk about that because I feel like it is. It’s so like, in your essence to just kind of take that like leap and be like, I will figure it out, you know? 

Yeah, well, I will take both of those as compliments. And you actually had posted up on your Instagram before card and explained a little bit about it the other day, and I saw that and it super resonated with me. And so I was curious what cards you saw for me, so that’s really awesome.

And also, I have to say it’s a learned skill like I was again I clung really tightly to the identity of being somebody who did the right thing and follow the rules and had this path. And the more and more I leaned away from that, I think the more and more I go with the flow and kind of embody these other cards. And so even if you’re a person who doesn’t see that in yourself right now, know that you can kind of take those qualities on, the more you lean into trusting yourself some. 

Sheila M  49:21  

Absolutely, absolutely. And that’s one of the things I talked about in my high priestess. embodiment workshop too, is how intuition really is like a muscle and the more you use it, the better like the stronger it gets. And the more you get used to recognizing it when it comes up. So like you said, a lot of people are aware of like, a no or like a you’re not safe, but but people are less aware of the Yes, especially when it’s like, in contrast to what’s expected of them or what they expected. So I do think I do think that’s really interesting. Yeah. Really cool. And then I guess, just one last question. How do you I mean, we’ve talked about some of the ways that you use intuition. But how do you use your intuition now in your daily life? Or how do you kind of tune in with yourself? and kind of do these gut checks to make sure that you’re still on the right track? What does that look like for you?

Tanya Gallagher  50:25  

Yeah, it’s a combination. Sometimes it’s just moments that will reach out to me different opportunities. We actually just purchased a new home. And the way that we found this house was looking at the wrong house driving home, there was a street and I said, we need to turn down that street. I don’t know why. And, and then that’s where we found the house that we ended up buying. And so it was just like one of those like, Oh, we like go there, but that’s what we need to go there. So. So that’s kind of like the more some of the bigger moments of it. But I also tried to To take moments right before bed a lot of times, like when I’m in that resting state, when not a lot of people bother me or wanting anything from me, just trying to kind of close my eyes, take some deep breaths and listening to my inner voice and ask some questions. Because I think you can have a dialogue with yourself. And it’s just a practice of getting to understand what is your ego speaking? And what’s your intuition speaking. And that intuition is coming from that place of calm, and all as well, and just kind of leaning into that moment. And I think that’s a really powerful way. First of all, calm down and second of all, just to tune in and get some answers when you need them.

Sheila M  51:43  

Yeah, yeah, I love that. And then finally, we’re going to play a little game that I invented for my podcast, and it’s called witchy or wacky so I’m going to give you a sentence or an object And you can tell me whether you think it’s witchy or whether you think it’s wacky. no judgment here. It’s just to kind of give people a fun idea of how you view the world. So and again, just first first thought that comes into your head. So using crystals in jewelry.

Tanya Gallagher  52:21  

wacky Ah,

Sheila M  52:23  

Putting crystal eggs in your vagina?

Tanya Gallagher  52:26  


Sheila M  52:28  

using meditation to connect to creativity

Tanya Gallagher  52:31  


Sheila M  52:33  

using Tick Tock to learn Tarot

wacky – i don’t know about TikTok

We are too old! Asking spiritual guides or helpers to help you with writer’s block.

Tanya Gallagher  52:50  


Sheila M  52:51  

letting your hair go gray

Tanya Gallagher  52:53  


Sheila M  52:56  

love it. Yeah, so that’s it. Kind of everything I have. Is there anything else that you wanted to talk about that we didn’t talk about? Or any last thoughts that you have before we close out today?

Tanya Gallagher  53:09  

No, I think that’s it. It’s just been so wonderful to talk to you. And I’m so excited for everything that you’re doing these days. And to see all these projects come to life for you is so wonderful and people can’t see but I’m looking at you on the screen. I see the smile on your face and I see how aligned you are with all this. And I just know it’s going to be such good thing. So

Sheila M  53:29  

That is such good news coming from somebody who embodies the Fool card because it’s been a real it’s been a real roller coaster of a Fool year for me, so But yeah, thank you so much for for being here. Where can people find you on social media or online? I will share everything in our show notes afterwards, but if you just want to let them know,

Tanya Gallagher  53:51  

yeah, the best place to find me is at Or @TanyaGallagherBooks on Instagram. I tend to hang out out there and like the pictures so

Sheila M  54:03  

awesome, awesome. Yeah, so and I will share all of that I’ll share a little bit about where to find your latest book series and the rest of your book series. And but thank you so much for being here today. And I’m really excited that I got to have you as one of my first guests on the podcast.

Tanya Gallagher  54:21  

Thank you for having me. This has been wonderful.

Sheila M  54:25  

Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you loved today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me @starsagespirit and let me know what you learned, what surprised you, and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me or for full episode shownotes you can head over to