Intuitive Art, Charging into Creativity with and Undefended Heart, & Embodying the 3 of Swords with Lucy Morningstar

In episode 15 of Living Tarot, I speak with artist and tarot deck creator, Lucy Morningstar. Lucy is an artist, a witch, and a creatrix who is determined to help others shamelessly manifest their desires and create life on their own terms. she helps people bring their desires and visions to life on canvas through her painting and our commissions. This episode is all about the intersection of Tarot and art and what it’s like to go through the process of channeling and creating Tarot art through deep personal trust and creativity.

  • Lucy and I talk about what it’s like to break with family tradition and embrace intuition over logic.
  • We discuss how Lucy worked through mental health struggles by processing her emotions through art.
  • Lucy talks about how therapeutic it was to paint self-portraits as archetypes of the Tarot and how that work demystified some of the scarier cards in the Tarot.
  • She talks about her creative process and how friends and family often serve as models for her tarot art.
  • We also discuss how Lucy embodies the three of swords and brings in the energy of the card of the year ( The Emperor) into her creative work.

This episode is a deep dive on healing through art and how the art and archetypes of the Tarot can teach us all to embody things we didn’t think we could.

Connect with Sheila:

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Work with Lucy:

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Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium, and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure, and embodied the tarot along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing, empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the tarot. 

Welcome back to Living Tarot. I’m very excited today to have the incredibly talented Lucy Morningstar on the podcast. Lucy helps you connect with the powerful and collective unconscious through her art of all the mystical archetypes of the Tarot. She’s an artist, a witch and createtrix. In addition to being relaxed and laid back Aussie Lucy is determined to help others shamelessly manifest their desires and create life on their own terms. She helps people bring their desires and visions to life on canvas through her paintings and art commissions. Lucy and I had a really incredible conversation about the transition of intuition and how it grows throughout your lifetime. As well as what it’s like to have a family that maybe is not as supportive of some of your greater dreams, and of embracing intuition. This was a really powerful episode for me personally, because we did get very personal about our own lives. But also because Lucy’s artwork is so beautiful and so potent and getting to hear her explain her creative process, and also how she has really embodied the three of swords, and kind of fearlessly charging forward even when she is feeling that sense of heartbreak. That’s really powerful for me, so I hope that you will find it as helpful. Let’s dive in. 

Today I have Lucy Morningstar here with me. I’m so excited. So Lucy, can you tell us a little bit more about your work and what you do in this world?

Lucy Morningstar  2:38  

Yeah, sure. Um, I will say that I am an artist because I paint that’s like, my, that makes up a lot of my daily work. So I’m a painter, and I mainly paint portraits and portraits of people. I’m in archetypes and one of the main archetypes obviously is the Tarot – the concept is, you know, powerful archetypes in the Tarot and also also paint some deities, witches so I would say like, a portion of his Tarot crater like probably for pagans, right. Yeah, that’s, that’s what I do.

Sheila M  3:21  

Very cool. And so obviously, when it comes to art, there are a lot, a lot of different types of art, what really drew you into portraiture and also, specifically around Tarot, like, what really kind of drew you into wanting to work with those archetypes?

Lucy Morningstar  3:40  

Yeah, so, um, when I found out about painting, um, a couple years ago, because I, my background wasn’t in art or anything, not even literature has nothing to do with them either. I was in finance. And I started as you know, in banking, like financing, property developments, that kind of stuff. I found out about painting online through an online workshop when I was pregnant with my second kid and I thought, you know, I’ll just take this and then the minute I pick up, you know, paint and brush for the first time, I just thought, wow, you know, this is I just felt that this was what I was meant to do in this lifetime. And it was very interesting. Only a couple of months ago, like today at this year, a couple of months ago, I bought this reading by the is called inner light or inner darkness, like basically an A simple astrology. It’s not really simple but astrology reading from Benabell Wen and she does to raise your arm, black lilies, white lilies, that kind of things. And in one of the sections that you’re talking about it because of my chart it she said that tell me this is you like you pick up a hobby, then it turns out to be Your like your life, passion or your life purpose. And I when I read that I just that’s so true, both with how I discover painting and tarot. So you know, as I discover painting, I just, you know, really felt like painting faces I have, you know, these some landscapes and some still life, but they just felt like, you know, practicing techniques rather than really feeling anything that I’m really want to do. So, and, and during the many years when I was painting, there was a time, I was really focusing on painting self portraits as a healing process, because I found out that, like, I was depressed and I had to be rushed, you know, hospital emergency there was like, you know, and then I started painting self portraits and fun to be super healing. And but you know, is my mentor, my artist mentor has always asked me the question, like, like, why do you paint? Like, what is the, what is the meaning or why, right? So I’ve been asking myself, like, if we just about healing is just some tool generic and just didn’t, I have some, like, I knew they had something to do with, you know, the power of art, the visual arts and healing and all that, but it still felt a bit vague and didn’t can like click until I found the tarot. And it was like, I also started my spiritual journey, then I’ve had come out of the depression. And it was like, two years later, there was just this online shop online course again, right, you notice that this day and age, online courses are really amazing. And this course was by Susannah Conway. And she had this I think the course was, was called daily guidance. Basically, it was helping you tune into your intuition by picking a card a day, and you could choose to work with Oracle cards or tarot cards. And at that time, I didn’t know the difference between Tarot and Oracle. And she basically explained very simply, Tarot has a structure a set of structure, every deck has the same structure. But with Oracle cards is more freeform, they have different number of cards, and, you know, they have their own, like, their own thing. So I also then immediately I want to work with the Tarot, because just for the structure, because, you know, I think probably many creative people could relate is that our mind just go everywhere. Sometimes. Like your your don’t follow, like a logical stream of thought you could jump, you know, everywhere. And they’ve probably some maybe unrelated to other people, but they make sense to you like, and and you just feel like doing this flooding that and then sometimes we’ll feel you know, we’re just being spontaneous and go with the flow. But, but I actually found, you know, like, that wasn’t me. But you know, probably we’ll get to that later how Tarot has helped me have more structure. So I just really knew that I wanted to have a bit more structure, because I would just like, go in my mind’s everywhere, like I have maybe heavy in air signs. And so my mind goes everywhere. I just really felt that I wanted some structure to be more grounded and that kind of stuff. So I immediately knew I wanted to work with the Tarot. So as soon as I

Unknown Speaker  8:25  

got my first deck as a shadow scape Tarot, it’s very beautiful. Right. And, and I also, you know, learn a bit more about Tarot, I just found that wow, you know, this is like, this stack of 78 cards, basically, I like the answers to, they contain the keys to, you know, life on earth and beyond is like, ya know, and he just helped me find meaning like the as my mentor asks, why do you create and I just because I want to, you know, find meaning in this life and beyond and also actively create the meanings. And tarot just helped me to that and express that and make sense of things and actively be an active creator. Yeah, whatever you want to embody. You can find it in the Tarot and use as some kind of guidance. You can leave that right?

Sheila M  9:24  

Yeah, yeah, I think that’s so beautiful. And I love First of all, a couple things that like really stood out to me that, um, art kind of became this healing process for you. And I think it’s so interesting how bringing like a physicality to the work can help process all of that emotion. And and like can help do like a lot of the heavy lifting. And I think, especially in this day and age, there’s not, there’s a lot of value placed, I think on kind of traditional psychological  structure and and you know everything that they kind of set up over history. But now we’re kind of finding more and more how helpful things like art therapy can be in processing some of this complex stuff. And I also loved what you said about how the tarot can kind of focus, the more you know, the more chaotic minds, I think of the world. And I literally teach, I actually teach about this in one of my like, mini workshops, where I talk about how, when you look at a tarot card, like it automatically stops your brain from like thinking mode, and switches you into reflection mode, and how that can make like, such a deep impact when you are having like, anxiety or something like that, because it kind of interrupts whatever process is happening.

Lucy Morningstar  10:51  

Yes, exactly. And I found that I think it also what, like how I use the Tarot, especially with the, you know, people find to be the most difficult cards, right. And I think that’s when I see the difficult cards it really reminds me of my self healing process out of depression. Because, like, when you paint a slight, you know, when I was deeply depressed, I’ve been painting a lot of self portraits. And what I have realized, after painting, many self portrait was that, you know, that painting looks like me, like, I am, like, That is me, but it’s also not me, you might be at a record in time of how I felt, how I want to express myself, but even if I totally burned the painting ashes, like that is me. I am still here. So that that is like a detachment. So so that made me also see that, you know, I can feel whatever emotion going through whatever experience pleasant or unpleasant, right now in this in whatever situation, like, but they are not totally me. Like they it’s just what you go through what you’re feeling, though, what you really are, you know, in the probable the woo kind of sense, like, the bigger you the higher or however you want to call it is much bigger, just then the situation then your response to a situation than your emotion. Right? It’s not that you ignore them. But But this you don’t totally become identified with it. Yeah, right. And you see yourself as much bigger so, so are the same with the tarot cards. Of course, we forget the happy cards is all good, right. But I think we’ll also you know, because if it could become even to attach to the good things, then you also like, is, I think it, because we assume that good is, is what we want to have. And, and the bad is what we don’t want to have. But I think if you get too attached to both, um, if you want to become like, see yourself as bigger than that particular experience, you need to have a little bit of distance, whether there’s a good experience or a bad experience, you so so you can still enjoy it, but know that you are bigger than that. So even so with a difficult cards, for example, once we see in the tarot card, you know that it is not totally personal, it is personal on a level, but it’s also an an archetype or collective experience that people, a lot of people, if not everyone goes through. So and and this one particular experience, for example, is only one out of the 78 cards. And it does not represent the whole deck does not represent the whole, you know, material or spiritual experience that you’re able to to experience. So that gives you a bit of distance, and you don’t become totally identified in that moment for that particular experience. Right? Because, you know, it’s just one of the cards, if not all of it.

Sheila M  13:47  

Yeah, I love that you spoke to that too, because I think like people’s idea of what like the challenging cards are, are really different kind of based on personality type too as well, which I think is really interesting because there’s kind of like the traditionally difficult cards like maybe the tower, maybe death although sometimes death is wanted if you’re like in a situation that you’re ready to let go of, but I think it’s really interesting. How like, what is challenging can shift over time. I personally have had this experience over like the past year of dealing with the temperance card a lot which is really lovely card, but I find it particularly challenging to be in temperance and so when I pull it I’m always like, Here we go again, you know, but like other people pull it in they’re like Oh, good temperance, you know so i think a lot of it is subjective to like you’re saying it’s deeply personal.

Lucy Morningstar  14:44  

Yeah, temperance, I also find it very hard to embody as well because like if we think about you know, Taoism is the middle path and in the Kabbalah is also the middle, like the middle is the most pleasant but it’s really hard as human beings to stay in. Most balanced always choosing the middle path, right?

Sheila M  15:03  

Yeah. And like you were saying, you have a lot of air in your chart, I have a lot of fire in my chart, which does not really lead itself to being that middle path. You know, it’s always kind of extremes. So it’s, it’s very interesting how like personality can come into play.

Lucy Morningstar  15:19  

Yeah. And I think some of the more difficult carsd, like I said, the tower, like these are probably some of my favorite cards, because I even painted like in the in the deck that I’m working on, I even use myself as model for the tower and also for the three of swords, like the most difficult cast, because I just like those were actually mine was my most they were my most feared card. So I actively put myself in those cards. Yeah, is one way of embracing it. And you know, and yeah, I just find, and I just, you know, once you’ll also see yourself in that situation, it also helped create a bit of distance.

Sheila M  16:02  

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So with all of that, what has been your experience of cultivating your intuition? I know you spoke a little bit to the course I’m just starting with our but how has that kind of shifted over time? Like, how is your intuitive practice shifted? And how do you use it in your daily life?

Lucy Morningstar  16:23  

Yes. So I, I don’t think that grew up. Like really encouraged. Like, even heard of, I think I’ve heard of the word intuition as I was growing up, because I grew up in mainland China. And I think after the Cultural Revolution and everything, it was very materialistic. So I remember even when I was a little kid, probably three or five, I was living with my grandparents. And I asked my grandpa, do you believe in spirits and ghosts? And my grandpa, just answer? No, we are materialistic. So and I asked, What are you so materialistic? And then he said, You will only believe in what we can, you know, physically see touch? Right? And I said, Oh, okay. I like somehow I remember that. And I, and so I was raised atheist. Um, and sometimes when in school in China, or with your friends, if you mentioned, intuition is kind of like a joke. You know, it’s like, yeah, it’s just like, you would like to sort of fun joke, or people can just, like, look at you in a funny way. And, you know, it’s to be made fun of, it’s not something that’s real serious, or, or anything, it means that you’re not educated, that you’re not thinking straight. Yeah, are you just, if you want to not take yourself seriously and make fun of yourself, you can say, that’s just my intuition. Like, it’s not like, you know, so I don’t think it’s something that I’ve actively cultivated or even looked toward, for for a large part of my life until I started painting. Then, when I started painting, I started to get a sense of, you know, where the artist ideas come from. Right? And it has to come from somewhere. And then I started to really get a sense or start to really believe there’s something beyond, you know, the material, the material, what often we can physically feel with our five senses. And and then, and then once you started opening to just more and more things that just confirmed that there’s much more than that. I’ll tell you about one that’s very, like kind of Oh, like, yeah, yeah. So the swords paintings were one of the first that I that I painted out into the swords. So as one of the first one opinion was self portrait is the three of swords. You know, as a self portrait, and my idea, like, at that time, of course, are just, you know, my, I just wanted to paint myself for the three of swords. At that time. I didn’t think, Oh, you know, because it’s the most like my most feared card, like, this looks, you know, I want to paint it. I think I just first got ideas, I wanted to paint myself for the three of swords. And then I then started to think, you know, what, if, and then aside to rationalize to myself why I wanted to paint the three of swords in the self portrait. And I think, you know, in the two of swords, you make a decision, and then in the three of swords, you commit to that decision, even if you know that it’s gonna, you know, cause pain or heartbreak later down the chain, you’re committed. So, and I think, you know, this is what I’m gonna do. I’m committed to painting this, you know, this series of paintings. I am committed to Tarot, you know, because I’ve found so much meaning. So even if later on, I’ll be criticized for my work not good enough, or because you see in the Tarot community, sometimes there can be a lot of criticisms, even people you know, Look at like those people with big names or what they get like Benebell Avalon, you know, Thersa, they are doing such a wonderful work and they get, you know, chose, right. So, so I think you know what, and if I am putting that out there, finally, I could get really bad feedback, right? So but our three of swords, I say, you know what, I am committed to this, even if that’s what’s gonna happen, I know there’s a possibility is very possible, but I am ready like to open my heart to keep it open. And to to this path. So knowing that it could vary with potentially bringing in heartbreaks and backstabbing and all that, you know, just so I painted that in the through of source and a year later, at that time, when I painted it, I didn’t know anything about astrology probably, except for the symbol or the glyph of my sun sign Libra. Other than that, I really didn’t know. I didn’t even know what an Ascendant was. So that’s like how little I knew about astrology. So a little bit more than a year later. You know, I bought Benebell Wen Spirit Keepers Tarot, and then also sat just started to learn a bit about astrology, and then order the glyphs for the planets and the 12 zodiac signs. And then one day after shower, I just went to my, you know, my room, my reading room, my artist space, and then I just felt like, you know, what, am I really being divinely guided, guided by spirits and all that because, and so I just pick up a Spirit Keepers Tarot, and I have my, my Artemis statue, and my ultimate painting that has I, she’s kind of like my protector, my nation goddess. And I just so I miss I really been like guided, please just, you know, just choose a card and see what you like, what what you say. And then I shuffle, shuffle, shuffle, and the three of swords came out. And, and you know, what’s the thing about it is when I choose the three of swords, of course, like, after a year, painted a self portrait, so I didn’t think of it at all. So it’s not like, you know, when I’m telling you, we’re always talking about a three of swords, so you know where I’m leading. But when I pull out that card, I wasn’t thinking about the painting at all. And then when I saw that card, it was the leaves the zodiac sign of Saturn in Libra, and I just learned about astrology. And no, my child had Saturn in Libra. And then, you know, he was like, because like, what are the odds? Right? If you think about it, there’s 78 cards, and then the setting could be in any kind of signs, and what are the old study that would match and a year ago, I decided to pay myself as three of swords and that’s set in, Libra, and am I chapter seven in the bra, so and you know, so just, you know,

Sheila M  22:49  

yeah, it’s so powerful. When that happens when you have that, like confirmation. I have, like, so many times when it’s happened, because I’m, I’m like you to where I, I was, I come from a very conservative, Catholic background, I was raised in a very Irish Catholic family. And, um, you know, I always had stuff and I was kind of taught to, like, it’s wrong, or to ignore it my whole life. And so it’s been, it’s been very interesting, because I find that I’m always looking for, like, further validation. And I’ve, like, I’ve had crazy things happen to me. I’m a medium spirits talk to me, like all of this stuff. And I still say all the time, like, if it wasn’t happening to me, and if it wasn’t happening to me regularly, I wouldn’t believe it.

Lucy Morningstar  23:39  


Sheila M  23:40  

But I’ve had so many situations where I was just like, you know, I can use some help, like, give me a sign. I’m like, something has happened, like, so directly. I recently had this experience where I, I wanted to see this angel card reader, and she’s wonderful and extremely popular. So she had a very, very long waitlist. And so I put my name on, like a year before this. And I was going through a lot like in in my career life, and I was trying to figure things out. And I, I had a client cancel an appointment, which almost never happens. Um, and so I was like, okay, like, I didn’t really think anything about it. And I’d had a really frustrating day, and I kind of was on my way to go teach yoga, and I sitting in my car waiting outside the studio, and I was like, you know, I really need some help. Like, I really needs some guidance, you know, angels guides, whoever, like somebody just helped me out. I feel like I really need to hear from you. And so I went in, I taught the class I drove home and I pulled into the driveway at my house. And I had an email on my phone from that angel card readers assistant and she said, Hey, we had a cancellation at 1030 tomorrow, which is when my client had canceled at 1030. Tomorrow, can you come and I was like yes, and I was like, This is Crazy, like, if the timing of it and the person cancelling and all of that, like it was just too many things for me to be like, Oh, it’s just a coincidence, you know?

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Lucy Morningstar  26:53  

Yeah, you know, sometimes we always brush those things off as coincidence and just random events. But like the, I think we just need to pay attention. Because we’ve always just brush things off as a coincidence, or just random occurrence of things. And you can see there was just random events happening and none of them are correlated or connected or, or you can choose to pay attention. And then you see the world is a much more magical or a miraculous, you know, thing of being then then you’re you know, very conservative or the atheist viewpoint is right. Yeah. Like, you know, we can choose to live as a Catholic conservative or atheist, like, Oh, you can choose to live as a magical person and what is the more fun way to live? Even if everything is just Whoo, like, made up? Like, how do we want to perceive the world? And how do you want to how do you want to leave? Right? Well,

Sheila M  27:51  

Exactly. I think it’s so interesting. Um, so as you kind of started to create this deck and kind of put things together what is that process been like for you? And how, how is it when you kind of sit down to work on a card? Like, do you decide ahead of time or are you like channeling in what card you’re working on that day? How does it work for you?

Lucy Morningstar  28:17  

Okay, so for this so I so for this that is that that I am creating? It’s a very different experience that I was creating for Ethony you know, Ethony has done more than love Tarot coming out and I I painted like I was an artist for that deck. So when I was working with Ethony then she gives me a like, you know, just some brief explanations of how she wanted and she didn’t doesn’t stick figure thumbnail for me to follow. So in that way that that I just knew exactly what she wanted like very much from her simple sketch, then I didn’t have to really channel or think very hard right, right now and for this one, where is my ideas then of course, the creation process and take a lot longer because I have to kind of you know, it’s like someone just give you the idea then you just materialize and you have to have the ideas tool and then you have you just have to conjure the idea right? Yeah, for example, the three of swords I just wanted to do that like have feel like that I have actively opening my heart and have the arrows coming in from behind. And I just had that in my mind. And then I just asked my son to take a photo of me doing that pose and then that and then just, you know, Joe Joe, some thumbnails to figure out like you know, the best composition, whether you want a really close up or the full body or just upper body you know, that kind of just like the techniques co stuff and for a lot of the concepts I am creating myself. I For example, I painted the swords suit first. And then in between that I have some major arcana cards that if I have the idea that I will ping them, I think I have a bit of structure, I want to tackle, one sword at a time. So I did the swords and then the cups. And now I am on to the wands and I want to do the wands and then the Pentacles and then leave the aces last. But that’s my, I just want to do that with because I want to, like leave the aces last, like I said, the aces, you know, it’s like, back to the beginning like this might like, so I just like, I can’t explain why. But probably that’s like intuition speaking, I want to have that kind of structure to how I approach it, but also want to have a bit of structure. And also, I think, not logically because I kind of can explain my intuition in many logical sense. Right? Yeah, just so used to, you know, cuz I like, also, when you work a particular suit at a time, then the paint on my palette stays pretty similar.

Sheila M  31:06  

Right? Oh, that makes a lot of sense that I would have never thought about that. But that makes sense.

Lucy Morningstar  31:10  

Yeah, I was thinking, you know, one day paying, you know, water and fire, then, you know, the, what has a lot of blues and turqoise, and that kind of thing, that’s, you know, you don’t see that much in the ones painting, right. And so it just saves paint. And also give me peace of mind in choosing the paint the color palette. So like, that’s the very technical part when it comes to so once I have that structure, then which card I want to paint is like, you know, I have this model for this card. And Teresa has actually introduced me to a lot of people that that would like to be model for, for the cast. So I will of course, if there is a model for the car, then I will look at their Instagram, their photos on their website, or if I you know, Facebook and just see, just get it and read their, you know, pose and the about page just to get a feel of, you know, what they are, how they you know how they are. And then sometimes I will, you know, keep thinking about them in the card in the shower, or, you know, in the meditation and, you know, just, you know, and then sometimes I just have some ideas and then and, and then I will if they if I can find a photo of them with a particular pose, then that I have in mind that be excellent. If not, I will either try to search some photos online that have a similar pose, or I just take a picture of myself with the, you know, the pose or you know, a hand holding a cup or whatever, and just kind of Frankenstein the thing together.

My gosh, hold on. This is so cool. So you are using inspiration from real life people to help you kind of structure these cards. How do you choose who goes with which card? And how does that work? That’s so cool.

Yeah, because at the beginning of the author, the off the deck, I approached her Teresa and then I just had the ideas, you know, Teresa, what about because I need out, you know, and one models for our cards. Like, if I just you know, I can just paint myself or my family member – I can’t keep doing us right and right, you know, enough, you know, random people on the internet, like, you know, um, you know, how about we just do real life people do you have friends that, that they would like to be featured as a card. And then of course, Teresa knows so much people and then she and then she just so you know, this person that has mentioned a whole lot of people to refer to our cards. And then sometimes she has an idea of you know, where that person will be like for which card and sometimes we will have a you know, talk about it a bit like you say, you know this person, what do you think that, you know, she could be and I say you know, probably she feels more like a wands person. And then and then we’ll just you know, put them in in the wands and then so basically Teresa came up with a lot of, you know, referrals of the models and i and i also you know myself my daughter My friend also featured in the cards.

Sheila M  34:35  

I love that I think that’s so cool because I thought about that and I have my like first deck that I used really really regularly especially for like other people’s readings was a Star Child Tarot by Danielle, Danielle Noel and, um, you know, she’s like a visual artist. So a lot of her cards are photographs that are Then, like, designed around, like people that she knows and, and friends and stuff. So I, I think it’s so interesting because like one of the things I’ve been doing with this podcast and even that I do in regular life and I think a lot of readers do is kind of see the people in your life as different cards or see situations in life as different cards.

Lucy Morningstar  35:21  

Yeah, yeah, especially with a court cost, I think, you know, leave the court cards, you see them as a particular person that you probably know, or, or, you know, their online figures that you can just look up, you really help you, you know, tuning to understand that if you know, the card a lot more, right. Like, for example, with my queen of cups, Teresa introduced me to Sasha Grahm model, and she said, She’s a Scorpio and she’s, she will choose an actress as well. And she said, tarot reader/actress, and she has made films in those horror films like vampires, werewolves, that kind of stuff. And so that would be like the dark, like the dark side of the queen of cups. And at the same time, she’s, she’s doing a lot of, she’s done a lot of, you know, helping youth with trauma that, you know, to grow up a little self empower. And, and she’s teaching tarot and if you look at she’s like, she is like, like I said, the embodiment of both light and light and the dark. So and and she said, so intuitive. and tune in psychic, like she just, like perfect for the queen of cups. So I and the darkside and the light side as well. Right? So I think, you know, if you, you know, look at these people, you just help you understand, you know, certain archetypes more easily.

Sheila M  36:40  

Yeah. And so, um, so with doing this work, is this what you’re doing full time now you’re doing art full time? Or do you still do finance stuff as well?

Lucy Morningstar  36:50  

No, no, no, I, I didn’t do finance. I’m not doing finance anymore. Because I found that working in finance couple years, and then I’m just really not cut off for corporate. Yeah. And, and after that, when I was pregnant with my, after I gave birth to my first child, and basically, my, I started a company with my ex husband. So for couple of years, we’re doing that. And now I’m just doing it full time.

Sheila M  37:17  

Oh, that’s amazing. And so how does, how does your family and and like your friends, as you’re kind of going through this transformation from, you know, thinking it was going to be one thing in your life into this fully, like creative and intuitive self? Are they accepting? Do they not understand? Like, what’s your experience been like in that?

Lucy Morningstar  37:42  

Yeah, well, I first, of course, I think if we come from like a more traditional kind of family, of course, they wouldn’t be very supportive. Right? You would be lucky if they are very supportive, like my dad was always very supportive, when I was following his idea of where I should have been, I always aced schoolwork, and got into, you know, the top university and got into a finance degree, and then got into one of the big banks here in Australia. And that’s exactly what he wanted, like wanting to work in finance, and climb the corporate ladder to the, you know, top and that kind of things. But then when I quit the job and started, you know, doing our own business with my ex husband, he was already not very happy, because, you know, of course, I was like, he wanted me to be independent, not dependent on men, but what not even working together in this in that company. And finance, like in from the, I think the mainland Chinese traditional kind of point of view is like, where money is made? Right? Thank you to finance. You go where the money is like, why would you, you know, give up your big corporate job in the big banks to do your own little small business, it is ridiculous. So of course, he wasn’t very supportive and, and the rest of family one might be supportive. And by the time I decided to start painting, and they, and they saw that it wasn’t just as a hobby – I was taking in more and more seriously, that’s like, we like, like, you’re just gonna waste all your study in finance and all your experience in doing this, you know, it was very frowned upon and looked down on. Yeah, you know, this painting is and so, but like, my mom also issues because my mom also, my mom like means my mom’s very straightforward person, she, she always means well, but the words she used could be always very harsh. We are in so you know, she was just so stupid, ridiculous and bad and blah, blah, blah. But the thing is, well, I have custody for a couple of years now. And they see that you are not going to be persudaded way to get back to whatever they want, then they just give up trying to convince you all the time. And, and because, like, my dad still lives in China, so it’s not like he, he can try to influence me every day it was my mom is in Australia with me and at first, like we have more interaction, every time she sees my work, you would just go I first you would say, you know, you’re really not going back to banking. You know, you know, all these studies and wasted and all and all that, but now it’s been a couple of years, she’s she start to see I’ve progressed with my work. Like she can see my skills improving. And she sees that I’m just like, this is what I do now. And, and she even learn to say some nice words about my work. And, you know, that would be amazing. Surprise, Oh, nice words could ever come out of your mouth?

Sheila M  41:02  

Yeah, oh, my gosh, I know, it can be really challenging, I think. And I do think it can be like that where like it, there’s almost like this, like, they ignore that it’s happening for a little while, or give you a hard time about it a little bit. And then kind of are resigned to it, but maybe like, don’t want to talk about it really? And then like, maybe eventually say something nice?

Lucy Morningstar  41:26  

Yeah, yeah, I think you just back to we have to believe in ourselves. First, you have to have the perseverance to, um, like, like the three of swords that I always, you know, tell myself like you, even though your family kind of bash you for choosing this path, or the people that you’ve always loved, that you felt that could be your support. And that not supporting you, or even trying to take you down. If you yourself have the perseverance, eventually, if they don’t feel like they fit, they just wanted you to conform to their idea. But if you persist enough, and they see that you are actually Okay, after you’ve persisted for however long, they will come around, you know, but we have to have the perseverance and belief in ourselves, or in that path we choose first. 

Sheila M  42:18  

Yeah, and I think that was one of the things that was a challenge for me when I was kind of, you know, cutting out of the broom closet, so to speak. And I had been one person and kind of this other person in secret. And I had, like, at some point, you have to just decide to have the faith that the people who can really be there for you will go along with you. And anybody who can’t, just isn’t meant to kind of continue down this path with you. And that, like, you can’t make people you know, as much as you might want to. And so I was like really nervous about like, coming out and telling people but Funny enough, like, what everything that I made up in my head about how how it was going to be was way worse than it actually was, you know, even even down to like my my family, like when when I initially told my mother, and she did not have the best reaction but over time, like, she’s, she’s gotten better, kind of, like you said, kind of more accepting of it. And I think it’ll still probably take like a while and I don’t think she’ll ever be like totally warm to it. But I also think that at some point, you just kind of have to have that faith that the people in your life can go along with you. And I was even, I was even really nervous to talk to like my partner, because we had been at that point, I think we had been together for maybe like a year and a half, two years. And I was like, Oh, I don’t know. I don’t know how this is gonna go. I don’t know how this conversation is going to go. And it went fine. And I was like, Why was I so nervous about that I think we we kind of make up in our head what it’s going to be and it can be really scary, you know, and like you said, like you can hear crappy feedback from family and I think it takes a lot of resilience and a lot of bravery to really step out and and be your authentic self. And that’s why so many people don’t do it, you know?

Lucy Morningstar  44:16  

And I say well, what if we like when we try to hide like in our closet and have this to like, you know, be who we are in front of those people and then be someone else when we’re not in front of people. I think it just takes a lot of energy to continue to conceal something or to put up a different front like like you know, I think that just really use up so much energy and you probably will will feel a lot lighter. Like I said, you just come out you know, whoever is meant to come along with me then will come along with me. If not at least I don’t have to pretend anymore.

Sheila M  44:50  

Exactly and that’s what happened. I was like so exhausted from feeling like divided between two people and also trying to like hide something that was becoming more and more important, you know, huh?

Lucy Morningstar  45:05  

Yeah. And then when that thing becomes more and more important, it takes you even more energy to hide it. And you’re just being so exhausting hiding who you are like, you know, and your energy will be channeled to much more creative work, right?

Sheila M  45:20  

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I love. I love that, too. And so with everything that we’re talking about, um, what card do you find that you really connect with? I know, you kind of mentioned the three of swords. Is that kind of where you’re seeing yourself now? Is that where you really connect? Like, do you feel like that’s what you embody?

Lucy Morningstar  45:44  

Yeah, I think that’s the three of swords will always like, you know, it’s like with the, with all of these experiences in Tarot. It’s not like, we just go through a particular experience once and then be done with it. Right? and then we are happy. Right. So I think the three of swords will be always something that I have to remind myself along the way, like, you do something, you know, there’s gonna be heartbreak, or people might not like you or say something bad or whatever. Is this the path that you that you use? You are still, you will still choose? Right? So if you’re still choosing this, and if you have chosen in the past, you commit to it accepting that the the heartbreak that it brings, do you want to choose differently from this moment on? Well, you know, ask yourself that question and then make a decision again, like I just like, every time you make a decision, like you commit to the decision, and take 100% responsibility of whatever comes. And even if the result is not like all rainbows and daisies, right, I think I’m not about the three of swords is also a lot about taking responsibilities, like how you deal with it, so do the mental right, it’s like making a decision, and then asserting full responsibility that, that if that is your own your choice, right. Yeah, I think that’s always the case and some other concepts that I feel really connected to, I think one of them, um, one of like, for last year, it was the Empress because that was before the before the beginning of like, for a long time I like like, at the beginning of last year, I realized that I had a big resistance to receiving like, you know, receiving abundance receive receiving help from people I had this big resistance to receiving and when I receive something I kind of feel guilty without deserve it enough and that kind of thing. So when when that’s brought to my conscious because for a long time didn’t even know they had that problem. And when I say that problem, I then I decided to use the Empress to help me I’m like integrate that kind of things and and open myself up to receiving so for the Empress when I was creating the Empress card basically I just put my intention into the card as I am open to receiving from both above and below right so the Empress in the Empress card you see the sky above with the towel. So they’re science and and the trees the forest in the earth. And so it’s like you know I am open to receiving from above and below so for me the Empress you know, because it’s about creativity as well. And I am an artist and I’m a mother I’m already creating all the time, but I want to be able to create from a place where I am full and then the creativity of overflows from me instead of I have to be depleting myself. So so for the Empress is like receive fully open to receiving from above and below and for and the creativity and the nursery and everything overflows from from the fullness. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that is the one that I was actively embodying, still trying to you know, embodying but that was what my focus was on last year. And I created the Empress painting and still hangs just in my living room. And this year at the beginning of this year, like we know this is the year of the Emperor anyway so I was also actively trying to embody that the Emperor card for that for the Emperor is like, you know, the structure thing. Like I want to have you no setup because to be the emperor of your life. You have boundaries and you need to set up structures, right? You set up structures for yourself to follow for people to follow that if if everything is so scattered, there’s no sense of security, you’re not you know, um, so for me it was like, have a structure have a strategy so that you can conquer you know conquer new territory or be strong in your own domain and be the sovereign, you know, sovereign creator of your own life, you do need to have that power to say that whatever you set out that you give command to do will be accomplished. That comes from sticking to your word. And also you have to have structure, you know, for creative people, sometimes our mind go everywhere and want to be spontaneous. But I have actually found out that it’s not, it’s not productive at all, like, if, like, three years ago, you would have told me that, you know, you need to learn to plan, and you need to know what you’re doing, you know, nothing, you’re crazy. I’m more like a free spirit, I go with the flow every day. But that wasn’t very productive, productive at all. So that’s why, you know, I kind of intuitively knew the turtle provided structure. And this year, I actually plan my week, on Monday and actually follow my plan. And if you feel a sense of power as the like, like the Emperor as well, because when you give a command, so you put it in your diary, that this is what you’re going to do this week, and you are able to take it off and accomplish them. You feel sovereign, right? Oh, my God. It’s not like you’re so powerless, you can’t do anything that you promised yourself that you will do. You, when you’re actually sticking a word and accomplish everything that you tell yourself, they like set out to do, like, put on a comment. And that gets accomplished, you feel more powerful. And I think that was with, um, in your safe, we do spell crafting anything. I think that really is important. Because what when you do any kind of spells, basically, you say something, you want that thing to happen. But if you just put something in your diary, and you can’t accompanies that, how strong is your word, without the skill? Right. So if I had given power to your word,

Sheila M  52:04  

yeah, and I think I’m sure, especially as a mother now too that a certain amount of being able to have creative time relies on that structure, because you do have children, and you do have all these other demands on your time. And I think that’s one of the things that I’ve really realized this year, in our Emperor year, as well as that, even when you are doing creative tasks, you have to be setting yourself up, whether you channel or whatever it is, with some sort of structure, or it’s very easy for things to just kind of shift all over the place. And like you said, like, I think a lot of us want to be just kind of like a free spirit and do whatever feels good today. But one of the things I experienced, especially when I first started because I do readings, and one on one sessions, I started just saying yes to like whenever people want it to come in, and I was like, Oh, this isn’t gonna work. Because I don’t I don’t have any consistent time to work on any workshops or courses that I want to offer Because I have appointments all over the place, you know, so I’ve had to like structure and set hours and really hold to those hours, because that’s what helps me get a lot of other stuff done. And in the beginning, I was just feeling like kind of burnt out and overwhelmed. Yeah, i was doing things all willy nilly, you know?

Lucy Morningstar  53:23  

Yeah. And when we don’t have the structures, we just spend so much of our energy trying to figure out what to do in the moment. If you just because, you know, when, before I started to plan, I think you know, why spend an hour also planning rather than you can just go through the work already, like, why do I sit an hour and my desk planning my week, I could just start my painting already, like, you know, that’s in the time wasted. But then once you really start getting like to anyone who does not plan, I was not one of the people who ever plan. But once you start doing it, you realize that at any time of the week, you don’t have to go through your brain and try to figure out what do I do now? What do I do now? Or should I do this? Or should I do that? Oh, I have this idea here. Go here. Like you don’t have to spend the energy. The brainwaves are trying to figure out anything you just pick up your your diary and say, This is what I do, you know, exactly actually saves a lot of energy. And you don’t feel scattered, you feel more focused. And like it like you know, if we don’t care, like just think about the days. How many times do you get to the end of the day, then you feel Oh, gosh, I haven’t accomplished anything. Right. So once we have a plan that rarely happens.

Sheila M  54:39  

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it’s so true. And I think it’s really important. I love that I, I love the idea of that like three of swords and how you’re kind of working with the cards of the year also, I think that’s really cool and, and really brings kind of a different level to like the card that you embody. yourself too, because it’s like, how does how does the three of swords come in and and meet up with the Emperor? Like, how do you work with both of those, and or see the Emperor through the lens of the three of swords and everything. I think it’s really cool. Um, so I know you have a couple projects that you’re working on right now I know, um, can you tell us a little bit about what you’re working on? I know, you kind of touched on it a little bit more how people can kind of find out or follow along with your projects, and where they can kind of find you online?

Lucy Morningstar  55:31  

Yeah, sure. I am on Instagram, you know, and my website is Lucy Morningstar dot art. And that is also my handle on Instagram. So people can just find me there and see, you know, my paintings for the tower that I’m working on. And also the Modern love Tarot that I’ve created for ethony. And that’s going to come out in November and if not already available for pre order. So I am working on my data at the moment. And I’ve also contributed a card the seven of cups or seven of waters to the 78 Tarot, you know, I’m Katie and Chase, they make lovely deck every year. So I’m very happy to be invited to their project this year. And I also have an Etsy shop, if you can come and you know, buy some of my Tarot prints. And I think they are just wonderful archetypes that, for example, I hang my Emperor and Empress in my studio and my office, like one big living room space every day, because I think when I look at them, my subconscious mind can I don’t have to put into words that I want to start checking, I want to be open to receiving just because I put in that intention when creating that work. So every time I look at it, I just know that what like what, what it meant, like my I don’t have to think about it, like your right brain or your subconscious picks up. And title is such, you know, those are like, you know, what, I think young cause the collective unconscious. And we’ll probably call it the archetypes because this is the collective archetypes. Like, when the parent is such a meaningful and strong tool, I think he’s because he has a lot of people’s collective energies, like the collective archetypes. And when you use that, I think, you know, for example, if, if you want to like the audience, if you think about, you know, what you want to embody, you know, instead of just like the conventional vision boards, I think, even more effective way will be using the Tarot as your vision board. So if you want to impress the Empress, you know, be more creative, and be more open to receiving abundance of that kind of stuff, you can just, you know, print your own picture, put it you know, and collage the things that you want into an empress car, and then put it somewhere that you can see every day I because I think it is your vision board. But at the same time, you’re tapping into the archetype of the Tarot a very strong a powerful collective energy. And, and, and see how that shifts your unconscious or your subconscious.

Sheila M  58:14  

i think that you know, for how you phrase that because when the artist is creating that card, they are infusing that energy with the work and then to have that in your space where you’re doing that, like you said, it’s almost like a spell that you’re kind of casting over the space and you’re drawing in on that energy. That’s so beautiful.

Lucy Morningstar  58:35  

Yes, it’s definitely spell and and if you’re actively doing it, like just collaging your photos, you actually like, you know, infusing your own intentions into that. And every time you look at it, it like it just sinks deeper, I think into your subconscious. And our subconscious is much more powerful than our conscious mind. 

Sheila M  58:55  

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, well, thank you so much for taking this time. Today, I will share in our show notes and everything and on the show notes page of my website, how to get in contact with you how to follow you and everything. But I just want to thank you so much for doing this today. This is such a nice chat, and this is the first time we’ve met. So and this is a lot of fun. And I really feel like um, you shared so much of your experience, and I know that it will help other people who maybe come from a similar backgrounds and don’t have that kind of support, or are going through their own kind of turmoil with mental health and looking for ways to kind of channel that into something productive and helpful.

Lucy Morningstar  59:41  

Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Sheila.

Sheila M  59:46  

Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you love today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives Feel free to To share on Instagram and tag me @StarSageSpirit, and let me know what you learned what surprised you and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episode show notes, you can head over to