Support Through Thresholds, Healing Guidance & Embodying The Lovers and The Empress with Scout Chavers

On episode 17 of Living Tarot, I interview my friend, Scout Chavers. Scout is an intuitive healer, generational doula and somatic guide in Austin, TX. She guides doula’s, healers and ethically non-monogamous lovers toward radical self acceptance, trust and love throughout transitions in their life through a trauma informed lens. Scout is passionate about alchemizing life experiences, emotions and our innate intuitive wisdom into empowerment and a deep sense of self trust – because she truly believes in rebirthing, reparenting and reclaiming our wellness as our birthright and as a form of activism. Scout’s resourced connection ushers various soul types through discomfort and creates a space for them to arrive to authenticity in their bodies to live WILD + AWAKE. Working with marginalized communities to ensure their birthright of awareness and wellness is truly ancestral work and at the cornerstone of Scout’s community engagement.

  • Scout and I discuss the complexity and exhaustion that she experiences showing up in the wellness community as a queer, black woman.
  • Scout speaks about how her activism has changed over the years.
  • We talk about what led her to doula work and how despite our best efforts at rebellion we are always brought home to our calling.
  • We discuss how intuition has shown up in her ability to be an intuitive healing guide and How she has taken it upon herself to take care of the caretakers in life.
  • We talk about the burden of perfectionism and how to take better care of yourself.

Connect with Sheila:

To book a tarot reading, virtual tarot party, or distance Reiki session with Sheila click here

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Connect with Scout:

Find scout Online at or on Instagram at

Join Scout for her next Soulful Self-Care Sunday:

Join the waitlist for Scout’s Doula Support Community here:

Donate to Scout’s Doula Support fund here: – *This money is strictly used to provide educational scholarships to BIPOC Doulas seeking mentorship and skillsets to help them support BIPOC families.

Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium, and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure and embodied the tarot along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing, empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the tarot. 

Welcome back to Living Tarot. On today’s episode, it is my immense pleasure to interview my friend Scout Chavers. Scout is an intuitive healer, generational doula and somatic guide based in Austin, Texas. She guides doulas healers and ethical non monogamous lovers toward radical self acceptance, trust and love throughout transitions in their lives, and through a trauma informed lens. Scout is passionate about alkalizing life experiences, emotions, and our innate intuitive wisdom into empowerment and a deep sense of self trust, because she truly believes in rebirthing, reparenting and reclaiming our wellness as our birthright and as a form of activism. Scout’s resourced connections ushers various soul types through discomfort and creates space for them to arrive to authenticity in their bodies, and to live wild awake. Working with marginalized communities to ensure their birthright of awareness and wellness is truly ancestral work and at the cornerstone of Scout’s community engagement. Scout and I met in a business program earlier this year, and I was immediately drawn to her work, because it is such an important piece of community building is such and important piece of activism, the work that she does as a doula, and as a woman of color, to provide support and care. And usher people over these thresholds in life is really powerful. We have such a beautiful conversation about context switching, about showing up in the wellness world, as a black queer woman, and what that means to her, what it looks like for her on a daily basis. We also discuss her lineage and ancestry and how intuition was part of her birthright and the way that she was raised. We also discuss a little bit about how she embodies the lovers card, and also the Empress card. So without further ado, let’s dive right in. 

I’m so excited. And I have my friend Scout with me today. So can you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do?

Scout Chavers  3:26  

Yes, I’m so happy to be here with you first and foremost, because I love all the things that you do and just your perspective on all the things in the world in the space that you hold. But I like to consider myself just an overall intuitive healing guide. And that can look so many different ways to the world. Mainly my main main, main job and space that I hold is as as a doula and I’d like to consider myself a full spectrum doula. And that means just, you know, I consider that defined as ushering people through transition in their life and through discomfort. And that can look like birth, it can look like grief, it can look like joy, it can look like just transition in terms of their bodies. So that can that can take many, many, many forms. And so that right now, during COVID does still look like a lot of birth work. But it does look like a lot of trauma work as well, with people who, you know, are parents, people who aren’t parents, just people out in the world. So overall, I just really love to guide people towards their own intuition and guide people through their own healing in a in a journey of self trust and like self discovery.

Yeah. I love the way you said that too. And I love the way you talk about being a doula because I feel like there are so many things in our society that kind of get glazed over and in particular, when it comes to birth, which is kind of like your heaviest focus right now. That there is just kind of this, all this anticipation and nine months of of gestation and getting everything ready and having a baby shower and everybody talking about it and gender reveal parties, which I fucking hate. Yeah. And like all these things, and then you have the baby and all of a sudden, it’s just like, okay, like, you’re good, go back out into the world be a parent now. And there’s like, no real support. And it was only in the past couple years that I even knew, like being a doula was a job. And I was like, this is so important how I mean, I know how it skipped over – it’s white supremacy and the patriarchy. It’s so fascinating to me that we we skip over so many of those thresholds, and and we just kind of like, there’s so much anticipation, I mean, even like weddings, death, like all of these different things, and we just skip over that middle part. So what was it that really drew you to that space? And to wanting to do that type of work? Or what, what kind of compelled you into that?

Yeah, I think what compelled me is being able to hold space for the emotional part of the journey, which I feel like our culture ignores in all the things that you just stated. So yeah, like all of this preparation work of becoming a parent of being excited buying things, capitalism stuff, stuff, stuff. And then all of a sudden, there’s just nobody ushering anyone through the experience of like your life is about to change, your partnerships about to change your family dynamics are about to change your households about to change, your responsibilities are about to change your jobs about to change, like everything in your life is about to shift in so many transitions in our life, including becoming a parent, no matter if it’s your first, second or third, fourth time. So I mean, this lifestyle of being a caregiver in this way, and a space holder in this way was introduced to me through my lineage, this is what my mother did, this is what my grandmother did. So it was never a foreign concept to me. But my mother’s specifically, who I grew up with, obviously, my whole life, I didn’t really grow up living close to or with my grandmother at all. She worked in the medical field specifically. So she was in the hospital on the labor and delivery floors for a lot of her career. And I knew that I wanted to be a part of that. But I didn’t want to be a medical professional, I did not want to be in the healthcare system. That was something I had no interest in. So for a long time, even though I knew doulas were like a thing I didn’t really, I didn’t really see it as a space that I wanted to be in in terms of just birth or transition, I did my own rebellious thing for a while of, you know, going to art school thinking like, I’m not going to be like my parents and my family, you know, that whole young, thinking, you know, everything when you’re 20 Yeah, and then I, of course, eventually landed here, because we know, that’s how karma and energy works. But, um, so I think that what really got me here, in terms of just showing up, that’s what I really think it was, I took a long time to show up here. And what got me to show up was understanding that there was a huge emotional space that people weren’t paying attention to that there is an emotional space and just everything from moving your body to transitioning and moving in your life. And so I landed there originally through yoga through becoming a yoga teacher, a somatic guide, and learning about how trauma how energy gets stuck in the body, learning about all the different abilities mobilities that people have in their bodies, as well as modifications for abilities. And through that, I mean, it just felt like I was experiencing rebirth over and over and over again through people rediscovering just the sense of being in the four walls of their body. And so it just took one prenatal yoga teacher training, very early on in my yoga career for me to be to come to the realization and be in the realization that this is the space that I need to to exist in.

Sheila M  8:49  

Yeah, I love how you said that too. Because I think I had an experience that was very similar. And I, I had actually taken prenatal training and, like loved it, like I really like took to it. I love teaching it, I still love teaching it. Um, but I went to a class and it was literally one of those things that you kind of sign up for on a whim. And it was a two hour class on the pelvic floor, the female pelvic floor. And it taught here in the Philadelphia area by a woman named Deb Brownstein, who’s fabulous. And I was sitting in this room and there were like, probably about 40 women in the room, all different ages from like, very young, like early 20s to like 60s, I mean, and she just kind of opened up the room at the beginning and said, you know, how many of you have had children? How many of you haven’t? Um, then she was like, what’s the state of your pelvic floor and everybody was like, I mean, just like, done. And it was this whole conversation where these women who had given birth 40 years ago, had been dealing with back pain and chronic issues for literally 40 years from giving. Yeah, I was like, I am so angry, right now? Yeah. Like, I want to do something, I think there, there is definitely something about that. And I know that that’s a lot of what is driven your experience and wanting to be a full spectrum doula as well, because there are so many populations that are left behind. And in particular, for black women, for women of color,there is a completely different experience of the medical industrial birthing process than there is for white women. Can you speak to that a little bit about kind of what drew you in and how you knew that was really the work you were meant to do?

Scout Chavers  10:53  

Yeah, absolutely. I think that, first of all, love the pelvic floor story, because like, Yes, just cheers and snaps for all the pelvic floor health. Important, no matter how old you are, what life experiences have been. But I I definitely have been heavily rooted in social justice work just in every aspect of my life. I think just being specifically a black queer woman, there really was no running from that and everything that I do. So it has infiltrated every part of my life in a joyful way. So like that can sound really emotionally heavy to some people where it’s like, they hear social justice, and they immediately hear politics or they hear, like, oh, you’re listening to all the depressing things that might be happening in the world. But for me, it was really much like no, I really need to fight because there is a system in place here, that doesn’t seem to be making sense. And there are certain people that need to see that the table and a certain amount of people that need to be heard. And I discovered that very early, just growing up in a very academic environment. And also growing up in an environment where my parents taught me from home a lot of the time. So although I, although I grew up going to private schools, and like college academic, like college prep schools, my parents also taught me a whole different curriculum from home, especially when I was very young, like before the ages of 14, with just teaching me black history, teaching me things that they knew I wasn’t going to learn in school, and just also teaching me how the world worked, like teaching me a whole separate curriculum in terms of like, you know, being 12 years old and running around and being like a crazy kid with the rest of my friends. And my parents like mentioning things to me of like, Hey, you can go and be like a crazy child. But if the cops show up, it might be a little different for you then for your friends, and here’s why. And so, just starting to grow up with that education very early, I always had that mindset of like, things are different for different people and wanting to take up the space of in using my my loud voice, and my access, frankly, to help others. And I think that that access was not only created by the privilege that I had, of having parents who made it out of being incredibly poor, and made it into the middle class. They assimilated and infiltrated enough to be able to get me into those spaces. But also, the education that they provided me through academia allowed me to also be able to assimilate and be seen as like a token in the white community. And so what I mean by that is that because of the education I received, I speak a certain way, and I have the ability to code switch in a certain way, so that I am accepted by white culture, and I can make it into those white spaces, which means it is really my duty to clear the way and like fling the doors wide open for everyone else who deserves to be in those spaces that may not have had the same privilege and access that I have had to gain this level of code switching, which I consider a superpower.

Sheila M  13:49  

Yeah. 100%. And I, for anybody listening who doesn’t understand what code switching is, can you explain it to them? Yeah,

Scout Chavers  13:58  

yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, of course. Um, I realized that I’m joining back in on my visual for you, but you should be able to hear me from the sound. Yeah, so so code switching in general, and I’m gonna say this from my own my own perspective, and then also like, what I think it seen as on a larger scale and stage, but code switching is really just the ability to be able to, to, to lessen your proximity to whiteness, by being able to put on what I like to consider the costume of whiteness. So basically, how good or bad you are perceived or how accepted you are in the world is really measured on a scale of the proximity to whiteness. So, we have European beauty standards and our standard of academia, how smart you are, how educated you are, how professional you are, is in a proximity to how white you seem. And by white, I just mean that anything that is seen as a high level of energy education or a high level of cultural speaking, is seen as whiteness. So, because I know how to turn my Ebonics on and off, and because I know how what certain tones of voice I can use to be accepted in certain spaces, it has allowed me to show up in spaces and be accepted in spaces that other people of color, maybe would not have access to. I like to think of code switching is putting on a costume, I put on a costume so that I can keep every everyone who’s white around me as calm and complacent as possible, so that they’re not challenging me at every move, so that I can at least have a seat at the table. And most of the time, just even be able to listen to what is said, because it still doesn’t mean that I’m going to get the space to share or, you know, say anything directly. But code switching in general, I like to think of it as putting on an outfit and a costume. And it’s probably why a lot of people of color in your life, you might see them or perceive them as acting differently when they might be around their family, and around people and other people of color, then when they are at work.

Sheila M  16:07  

Yeah, and that I can’t even fathom how exhausting that much for all of you. I like truly, because I have seen it with friends of mine. And over the years. And I honestly, I like I can’t possibly imagine what it would be like, because it’s not my experience. But in just hearing so much from friends over the past six months, especially. You totally take for granted how much work is going into that at all times. And I truly I can’t imagine. So I think what you’re doing is, I think maybe underestimated by some people, in terms of the amount of work that it is to first of all show up and be able to switch back and forth. And also to how can I say, to also do the work of social justice and advocacy while you’re doing that, because that is already work that like you said you do joyfully but that doesn’t mean that it’s not hard work, or that it’s not heavy work at times, or like now in particular, that it’s not like truly just like soul crushing at times? 

Scout Chavers  17:35  

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I do agree with you. It’s just it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of work of always knowing and being aware of what space you’re in, at what times and with who, and not being able to be fully embodied as yourself all the time, which is what it was just something that in the wellness community specifically, I’ve been trying to make apparent to a lot of amazing, non POC wellness workers that I know like in this land, and in this world to do a lot of embodiment work with people, a lot of self trust work a lot of very similar things that I do. And I try to explain why that space, why there needs to be space for black wellness workers, black healers to be in that space, specifically, because a lot of non POC and non black wellness workers don’t understand that trauma is a little bit different for us, and that we are constantly incurring and having to do more work than the average person just like walking around on the planet. And so when you’re talking about being fully embodied as yourself, there are a lot of people of color, there’s no spaces throughout the entire day where they get to be fully embodied in themselves. So when you’re talking about self discovery, and radical self trust, and all these things, that nuance is very, very different when you’re living in a world that might like murder you because of that. So it’s it’s very, very different.

Sheila M  18:49  

Yeah. And I think it’s so interesting, because there is very little research on racial trauma, the generational trauma that comes with it, the fact that from the time that you’re young, you are exposed to the stuff. So there are, there is a lot of research on you know, abuse, trauma for children, and the way that your brain develops differently. But I have to imagine that over the next few years, we’ll find even more research about how that affects Child Development, growth over time, your ability to not just like you said, like, like switch to keep yourself safe, but also the ways in which that trauma then presents itself in your daily life and your ability to connect with people or like you’re saying to show up in a way where you feel safe to be connected to someone in a relationship or to go out and on social media, for example, show up in the same way that say I can as a white woman, um, and I really do I appreciate I mean, I’ve told this offline. But I do appreciate the work that you’re doing. Because I do realize that comes at great personal cost, and exhaustion and also is very needed. And there is, there’s so much wisdom that you have to share and that you have shared. And I personally am very grateful, I encourage anybody listening, who is interested in this to follow Scout on Instagram, which we’ll talk about at the end and everything, but you really have this, you do have this beautiful way of speaking to things. And also, this is gonna be ridiculous. Your voice is like, like, ASMR to me, like I love your voice. I think it’s like so soothing. I was like, I just went out to record all of my meditations, you’re like really, like, firmly, like laying down the law. And also, being just like, with the most lovely voice, I’m like, this is like, this is exactly what I need. And you know what I mean. And I think I’m, I’m just I’m really grateful for you sharing that, because it is important to hear it from somebody who has had that experience. And I’ve had the experience this year of talking to female and queer friends of color, who are in the wellness community, who really don’t feel like there is space for them. And quite frankly, there’s plenty of white women here. We need some other perspectives, in my opinion, because I don’t always relate to those either. And I think that there, there’s a lot to be said, and I think everybody deserves that space, and to have somebody in that space, talking to them who has had a similar experience. And in my mind, the more diverse those spaces are, the better they’re going to be for everyone. And the more you’re going to meet everyone, because just the tiniest little bit of awareness. It, there’s no way that it doesn’t make everybody better, you know, and that’s frustrating to me, and going around and finding all these studios that are still very white. And very, like not even just like white, but like very thin white model, yoga teachers power yoga, that’s it like yeah, stripped of all of yoga’s essence. And so I’m I’m really grateful that there are so many people out there now who have been able to advocate and to really push and to get other voices out there. Because it is so important.

Scout Chavers  22:44  

Yeah, for sure. I agree. I think that. And that’s also kind of the note that I wanted to go back around to like the whole code switching thing is I think that, you know, this is generational work. We’ve been doing it for generations, and there are different methods that need to be used strategically at different times. And I think that for a long time like for me personally infiltrating was the answer. Like I mean, I that’s what I’ve spent all my life until now doing. I’m 31 I spent all of my 20s infiltrating of just like going to college, getting into spaces carving out a platform so that people would actually listen to me and now I’m at the point finally now where people are listening to me. And for me personally, my strategy is no longer infiltration, especially in the wellness world, it’s sort of just burn it all down. Um, I’ve tried to work at many yoga studios, I’ve worked at many, many, many there are no shortage here in Austin, and I there are many, many, many that I’ve been that have been the white, you know, power yoga, we only put people of color on our advertising randomly when we get called out about it. Studios and it does not work like I no matter how nice I am no matter how much I tried to suggest things, the core issues of how they’re training wellness teachers, how they’re training yoga teachers, how they’re treating their staff, the fact that you know, trans bodies don’t feel welcome in those spaces, people are still queuing and a gender normative what like it’s just it’s very, very interesting. But I am no longer I am no longer a team infiltrate when it comes to the wellness community. I am very much burn it down and stop giving those people money and start going to other yoga studios. Because they’re more than enough yoga studios in the entire world like there are more than enough. Stop giving them your money.

Yes, oh my gosh, I love everything about this. So with all this work that you’ve been doing and with your doula work, because this is an intuition podcast, and I know that a lot of what led you to that was you know that rebellion and then kind of magnetically being drawn back around to that. So what really drew you to because I know you read Tarot and you are an intuitive healer and you do have just such an intuitive. Like, I feel like you have such this way of speaking to people where they feel completely safe no matter what it is that you’re saying, and no matter what their experience is, which is like the true mark, to me of somebody who is like, kind of meant to be a healer, because because of the way you show up like that. So what really kind of turned you on or introduced you to intuition and divination and all of that work?

Yeah, I can say that I had a really long relationship with my intuition. Before I really knew what it was, which I think many of us do. I had an unconscious awareness of my intuition at a very young age. And I would say that that showed up for me as a sense of radical self trust with no data. So like that, that’s how that showed up for me as a child in terms of just me being very rebellious, and always asking why always under wanting to understand why certain systems were in place, because I was also taught very young, like, these systems are kind of bullshit. So like, as I’m taught that as a kid, then I’m looking around like, well, then why do we have to have been Why? Why are we doing this. So just having that sense of questioning at such a young age, I didn’t have any data that like I should trust myself versus what other people may be telling me in certain spaces, I had no data that that’s because as a kid, you just trust what the adults are telling you to do. And so having this radical sense of self trust of like, I’m not quite sure why I want to do this, but I’m just going to do it. And I’m not really sure why I feel more comfortable in this space versus this space, but I’m just going to trust myself and be in that space and just starting that with very little things. And then having those things grow and grow and be heftier heftier things and land land mines, I would say that would happen in my life, I just started to realize that there was an internal voice and an internal compass that I was following that I was trusting. And then I would also notice the moments that I didn’t trust it, and that I wouldn’t listen and how those things would, would work out. And so just realizing that I had a sense of radical self trust, when I had no data that trusting myself would actually work introduced me to my intuition. And then I was so curious about it, that I wanted to hone it and be more involved with it and get closer to it. So I just started to do that in terms of, you know, allowing myself to follow my joy. And not just joy as in like being happy all the time. But I should say, more fulfillment than joy. And just allowing myself to take chances and trust myself. So I would say that, that intuition sort of led me into the relationship of understanding that it was really radical self trust that it was at the bedrock of that. And that is where I try to lead other people towards, it’s just like, you’re gonna find your intuition, you’re going to find your gifts, you’re going to find all of that stuff. If you just lean into the self trust, if you lean into making sure that you’re listening on the inside before you listen on the outside. And that for me, came up heavily when I rediscovered Tarot and I say rediscover because it’s something that was in my life also in my lineage and seeing other people when I was young doing it, things like that didn’t also didn’t really interest me at that time. didn’t really understand or know, but then being called back to it in my 20s as I’m trying to discover myself being called like back to that home space of using divination tools. I was finding myself getting back into that childhood mode. It was like I started at age two, again, like just even with my tarot cards of being like, okay, I don’t know what this card means. Let me look it up in this book that some random person wrote and all the books are different, and they all say different things. And they’re not wanting to wanting to get to that place of like, but then what is right and what is wrong, you know what I mean? And allowing my rebellious voice. To be like, there is no right there is no wrong. And so then just landing back into that space of like, Oh, I’m just gonna trust myself, like, what is this saying to me, and really turning on your list your internal listening in a different way. Instead of being trained just to listen to what people are saying, You’re telling you we’re dictating for you to do, listening to your gut, listening to your soul listening on from the inside. And so I would say that divination sort of tested me to come back to that space when I thought that I had like, gotten that down, as all life lessons to it just shifts, shifts its perspective and then forces you to learn again, right? Up to that challenge. So I will say with that with Tarot and just divination in general discovering all the different ways that that that I could meet with my own magic and discovering that reclaiming my magic was something that was very important for my for my my personal trauma and for my ancestral trauma and for my lineage in general. It really allowed me to, to trust myself in a new way, and then also gave me a tool to help communicate with other people through readings, teaching others, things like that.

Sheila M  29:50  

Yeah. I love that. I’m gonna go back to two things that you said. So I love that you spoke to Intuition being more, you being more aware of it when it was wrong. Because I think there’s this thing that happens for people sometimes. And I know that it happened for me when when I was kind of learning all of this stuff that anytime when I wouldn’t listen, and I was like, why didn’t I just listen to that? Then I like somehow paired it up with my intuition is wrong, like, Oh, I was wrong about this. But I think what’s actually happening is like, anxiety gets the best of us, and especially when you do have trauma, and I imagine in your case, having to marry all of that up with each other. And then Hmm, so how was that for you? Like? Was it always like, okay, no, I just, I just got to come back to this, or did you have moments where you’re like, this is bullshit. What was that like for you? Yeah, 

Scout Chavers  30:51  

I really, I don’t think I ever got to the point where I thought it was bullshit. But I did not I did go through the bouts of not trusting myself and being like, Oh, did I just make a wrong decision. But when it came to the core of it, I really did realize that it was it was usually just a trauma response. That we get in the way of me listening to my intuition, or me acting accordingly. And the only way I could really identify that and pointing out pointed out was to do Shadow Work and discover my trauma responses. So that was in that was something that I very slowly did just just starting to discover patterns in my life, or discovering how I landed in certain spaces that I didn’t like, and realizing it was very similarly to how I learned landed in other spaces that I didn’t like, and other times in my life, and then just realizing like, Oh, so when you get scared, this is how you tend to react. And it usually doesn’t work out for you, if you if you act from that space of fear. And also just realizing that a lot of this culture, and I think this is true for all of us, but just as like a black woman, I think that I was saw this very early in my life, that this culture really expects us and wants us all to operate from a place of fear of like, but if I don’t, and just like a place of scarcity, there’s not enough later, I got to get it now. And if this is mine, and screw the other person, and I got to stay and be secure, and I can’t take a leap because I don’t trust myself. And so really, what was the jumping off point for me and really going inside and forcing myself to listen, there were two major things that happened one, my life slowed down completely. And two, I took a huge chance. And when I say slow down, what I mean by that is I in I enveloped myself in a lot of very tiny rituals. And of course, I don’t have time to just like quit my job and like be doing tiny rituals all day. But I decided to make changes in my life that would allow me to do that I knew that I needed to immerse myself in a space that would be quiet. And that would allow me to think and that would allow me to do little mundane things that I could spiritually energetically put my energy into and get something back. And that I knew I needed to make a big leap and make a change in my life and stop giving energy to the toxic things that I said I didn’t like so for me what that looked like was after art school, I was gainfully employed as a designer, in marketing for years. And I was very lucky that I got that job because of course, I graduated school with a bunch of student loans. So the semester before I graduated, I was very grateful to be one of the people that already had had a job. And I was miserable. absolutely miserable, working. I mean, I was in advertising working all hours. And it just being an expectation of like, Oh, well, you know, you’re young and this is just the expectation you need to like earn your keep and just all of these all of these, like no, just me. Yeah, I’m like is this the way this is supposed to be like I’m oh is this we’re just supposed to be miserable like this forever. I was just very confused. Um, and so I just decided when I mean I took a huge pay cut, probably biggest pick out of my whole life. And I started nannying, which I hadn’t done since like high school and the beginning of college. And I, which allowed me to be with small children who teach you a lot and require tons of patience. And I also started working at the front desk of the yoga studio that I desired to go to yoga school at so that I could, you know, earn some keep and start going to yoga school. So it allowed me to I mean, yes, it was stressful. I’m not going to pretend like this was like just all sunshine and rainbows like I was making no money. And I was working a lot. But it allowed me to have slowness in my day where I felt like I was being usually being stuck in a cog in a system. It allowed me to really analyze where I was putting my energy. It allowed me to immerse myself in the wellness community, which I never had the opportunity to do when I was working all hours of the day. And so I just decided to take a big leap and make a big change and follow my intuition. And it honestly is like what led up to everything I’m doing now I wouldn’t take that back for the world. So it was really coming back to that place of self trust and putting my money where my mouth was when it came to changing my life. That started me off on that foot.

Yeah. I love I love that. I really do. And I like that you spoke to that. Like even though you knew it was right, it was still challenging. Because that’s one of the themes that I’ve been seeing come up for a lot of people and one of the things that I think is like instagrammable. And that happens a lot again and like the wellness space right now is like, if something is right then it is easy. And it is not. It’s not at all. Like you can know in your heart in your body and your mind in like all of you that it’s the right thing. And it can still be just like brutal to make that change. And I love that you spoke to that a little bit. I’m going back just to one more thing, but that I want us to ask about too, because I’m so fascinated by this personally. You are a triple Virgo Am I remember that right?

Yes. So in Vedic astrology, which is usually what i what i what i read, I don’t have a lot of knowledge in western astrology. But in Vedic astrology, I am a triple Virgo. And in western astrology, I am a triple Libra. So 

Sheila M  36:01  

Oh my god. Yeah. That is so funny. Because I was like, how does that go with like, divination and everything, both of them really honestly, like in traditional or, or Vedic? Like, how does that work? When you’re like, kind of in the like, this kind of grounded place to be trying to like bring all of this intuitive stuff down. I mean, I think it’s probably part of what makes you such a clear communicator about it. Because one of the things I think is most challenging is taking these kind of like, it’s not always like a sentence, right? It’s like a blob of stuff. And you have to like, pass it through you. And sometimes it like comes out and I’m like, oh, Sheila, that just was not that was not eloquent at all, that was not cute. But whenever whenever you’re like speaking to these things, and when you write stuff up the about the Tarot and all these different things, I’m like, Oh, my God, like yes, like that? Is it? Like, I’ve struggled so much to get that exact, like feeling out, and it just does not come out that way. So how do you think that your astrology has kind of influenced your ability in this work? Because I can imagine that it would bring both strengths and challenges there.

Scout Chavers  37:22  

Yeah, for sure. I mean, especially in my Virgo. I mean, the biggest challenge of that, for me, for my Virgo, and for my Libra is the fact that I always want to see both sides of everything, which sometimes will leave me at a standstill. But also I want to be a perfectionist, that everything which there’s no perfectionism in the work of embodiment, and the work of divination, like there is no room for that. So that’s a huge personal project in terms of just letting that go. But I do agree with what you said about like being in that airy, like breathy space of intuitiveness, which is like super all up in your brain like flying high up in the clouds and then needing that grounding aspect to be like, how do I communicate this on the earth now like to other humans, I feel like they’re my a lot of my grounding energy is always like very much in the human form. I really, really, I like to think of myself as someone who enjoys the human experience. That’s something I learned very early in a lot of my yogic philosophy studies is that you know, I am not this like existentialist like let’s go out to the woods, and live minimally with nothing and be spiritual and meditate under a tree like that is not where I live. I live in the space of like, Oh, no, we’re humans, like, I am in the mess, I am in the mud, I am in the imperfection, I am in all the feelings. And I like to ascend into that space, and, and grab those downloads from the universe. I like to channel like you were kind of talking about and be able to communicate them. But I am very much rooted in the fact that like, Hey, we’re all human. And let’s try to put this into words that that humans understand which i think that that part comes a little naturally to me, I think. I don’t realize that I’m putting it in a very specific way. That is, it’s nice that it is heard by so many different people. I think that’s a gift that I didn’t realize that I had. But I really am heavily rooted in the human experience with all my earthiness. I am not very I’m not very airy in my mind at all. I’m not not at all.

Sheila M  39:19  

Yeah, I think it’s so interesting, because I was I had a conversation with our friends Ash, where we talked about this a little bit and I was saying cuz um, they and I are both heavy fire charts like both of us have very heavy fire charts. And when we were talking about it, I was saying, the challenge for me like you’re saying is always to remove my ego from it like I have. My sun is in Leo and my rising sign Sagittarius. And what I think comes from the Leo a lot is this like, it’s not really people pleasing. But like, I want to be good, I want to be good at everything. And so it was hard for me in the beginning to take my ego out of it. But really, ultimately, what makes you a better healer and a better space holder is having that kind of completely removed and not being attached to the outcome. So it wasn’t like I wanted people, when I say ego wasn’t like, I wanted people to be like, Oh my gosh, you’re the best. Like, that’s not Yeah, I get the reputation that leos gets. It was more like, this person is paying me for a healing session. And so I feel like I need to solve like, I need to fix this thing. Or else they will feel like they have not gotten the experience that they paid for. And so I was like, very  in the beginning attached to that. And luckily, one of my teachers, and my Reiki teacher had a conversation with me and was basically like, that’s not how energy works. Like you can’t force it into submission, heavy fire chart -stop soing that. Yeah.

Scout Chavers  41:06  

Like, yeah, you can’t make it do that. It’s like trying to control flowing water you’re like, but why

Sheila M  41:14  

I can just will this to happen? I’ve done a lot of things. And, yeah, so I’m like, well, this must also be something I must do with brute force, you know. And so it was such a revelation for me when I took that out. And now I feel like the challenge that I am presented with, and you can’t tell me if this is similar with some of the work that you do, but is translating that over to other people. So having conversations, whether it is online, in my social space on here, with my clients, or on like my, you know, my offerings page, where I’m explaining to people that I’m not going to, like solve this for them, or fix them, or, or give them all the answers with the Tarot like it, my opinion is not that relevant. And what it’s really about is holding space for that person to heal themselves in a way that is safe and feels comfortable to them. And we’re holding the space for the person to actually step away from their life and be able to reflect on what they actually want. When we;re doing like a tarot reading, like what is going on? And yes, what have you been so like, anxious and hung up on that you can’t see clearly because the second that we start to have a conversation. Um, I can hear it almost right away. And and yeah, I don’t, – I don’t need the cards. It was really funny. I had a reading with a woman really early on, and she was like, Oh, you don’t need those cards. You can put them away. And I was like, Yeah, but it freaks people out. Last one. I have. Yeah.

Scout Chavers  42:54  

It’s a comfort tool. Really, for everyone else.

Like, you know, people like to have something to look at because it’s I think like we are at different levels of being able to suspend reality, right? Yeah. Like, people come in and I get a lot of people who are first time everything so this is my friend getting energy, right? This is my first time with a tarot reading. I don’t really know what I think about this, you know, I’m yeah, I’m on the fence and I don’t really understand what’s asked, you know, things like that. And I think one of the things that is really hard is removing that ego and just kind of allowing things to flow. Because as you know how you described it, the more you try to get involved, when you’re talking about channeling and everything else, the foggier the message will be like the higher Yeah,

Oh, yeah. Cuz then you’re not paying attention to what’s actually important. You’re paying attention, like what you need, you’re paying attention to you. And really, it’s just like, you have no part in this. And this was actually so so I kind of heard your question in three different parts. So I want to like I want to want to answer it in three different ways. First, I heard you know, the aspect of like, I really feel like I need to be solving something for people to in order to feel worthy to be doing this work. And this is a huge reason why I don’t call myself a healer as much like I do I do in my bio because when I sometimes healing guide is just too many words. And so sometimes I will say healer, but when people ask me, I always say healing guide, because I like to guide people in their own healing, I’m not going to heal you. I’m not a healer, I have the power to open up the channels for you, but I’m not going to heal you in any way. I’m not I’m not going to be magic for you in that way. But what I want you to do is be able to find your own path to healing with me and for me to be able to light that that way. So and I think that the the core issue that I have found in my practices of people coming to me with that expectation is one let’s chat about why you are always looking to grab something outside of you to fix your shit. Let’s talk about that. Because that’s true with everything. Like I’m having a little bit of a headache. Let me call the doctor and it’s like, hold on how much water Have you had today? What have you been eating lately, like, let’s start, let’s like, let’s self assess, you know, before we immediately start reaching out to people who we consider more qualified than us, because in reality, I am no more qualified than you, I have just done studies in certain spaces that you have not done studies in because you were busy doing your own things in your own life. So in order for like efficiency sake, in this human experience, you come to me someone who has been doing studies in this space to help Usher you through this, but it’s not like I have some grand knowledge that only I can get. And you have to come to me to get it. And it’s that’s also like that, you know, each one teach one anybody who likes to give you the impression that they are the guru and your medicine, you probably should steer away from and go somewhere else. But I sort of got that feedback from spiritual teachers as well, when I was going through that. And a big part of my career where I saw that was actually even a personal thing. It was actually when I was like getting divorced. I was married for I was with my ex husband for 10 years. And we were married for four. And as our marriage was starting to like deteriorate a little bit due to some some health things, mental health management things and lifestyle differences as we grew up, I really did not like the idea of like abandoning him or feeling like I was abandoning him, when I knew that we were not going to work out. And I, you know, went to my spiritual teachers and got a couple of readings and things like that, and they know how to speak to me. In the way that I need to be spoken to is a Virgo, which is usually a little harsher than some people. I really like that I like a little tough love, you know what I mean? Like I like for someone to get real with me. And one of my teachers was just like, Who the hell are you to fix anything for anybody? Like, and who are you to do that, that is not your job. And you’re also robbing them of the opportunity and experience of learning how to fix and heal themselves. So like, basically looking at me and being like, Fuck off, like, get out of get out of their process, get out of that process. And I was like, Oh, I I needed that. Like it just it gave me liberation, because then I actually freed myself of the pressure of being like, Oh, I don’t even I don’t have to save everyone, like I was just so confused. Like, you save everyone. And they’re like, No, you are doing them a disservice. And you’re also creating a karmic tie with them that they don’t need, because then their whole their karma, and their energy is going to feel indebted to you even possibly in future lives. And you didn’t even need to be involved in that that’s not your work. That’s not your job. Like, you know, it’s almost like but out and I needed that I needed that reassurance. And one of my teachers, she likes to say don’t sell water by the river. That’s what she always says she’s like, stop doing that you are not the solution. You everybody has their own path, how you got to the river is not how the other person’s going to get to the river. So don’t try to lead them down your same path. Just be the light, just be the light. And so I took that to heart. And that’s really when I started to shift that perspective. But I also think that what you were mentioning for healers, and for you know, healing guides, and for anybody who works in the wellness space, in the divination, space in the magic space, whatever people like to refer to it as, that’s what leads to a lot of perfection paralysis. And that’s what leads me personally to working with a lot of people. And most of my work with them is like, Can you just please go out into the world and do your work because the world needs you. And you’re too busy over here thinking that you’re not good enough yet. It leads to the thought process of like, I need to be perfect in order to help someone else. I can’t help someone else with their relationship if my relationship isn’t going perfectly. I can’t read cards for somebody if I tried to read my own cards this morning, and nothing was coming through. And it’s like none of those things are true. None of those things are true. We don’t need you perfect. We don’t need anybody perfect because that’s a disservice. Like we The world needs you with all your messiness and all your mistakes The world needs to see you mess up the world needs to see how you react when you mess up. Like we need all those things. And if we’re all stuck in this space of like I need to be perfect in order to help someone else and then I need to wait for them to be perfect so they can go help someone else we will never get anywhere. And so for the biggest part of that that I want people to take away if they’re listening is like the world needs you at your most imperfect period like full stop.

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Sheila M  51:01  

Yes, oh my gosh, I love that so much. Because I think there is this thing that happens where especially when people are new, where they do feel that obligation, and it is born out of being told our entire lives, that wisdom is outside of us. You go to school and you learn from someone else, you go to church, and you learn from someone else, and everything has to pass. All wisdom has to pass through somebody else before it comes to you. And this is so much about giving that back to people. And I love what you said about not liking the word healer, I find that I don’t like any of the words. I don’t like any of the words I’m like, don’t put me in a box. I will be no I am an original don’t put me in a box. But it’s also like you said I’m like I don’t really feel like a healer. I don’t really feel like a medium. I don’t like I don’t really feel like any of these things. All of these things are are things that I help facilitate. Sure, you know, but I think I love how you said like guide. And I agree, I feel like everywhere that I go, I have to like shorten everything up. And I’m like, this is not as succinct as I would like it to be. I always wish that there was a different word for it. Like in particular, like medium, like I’ve always hated the word medium. I hate it. I guess I just, I never liked it, there’s no good way to describe it. Yeah, I also just feel like even from the very beginning with that, I never felt like that was the main thing. I think it is to facilitate something else that I haven’t quite figured out yet. But I also like what you’re saying, because it leaves an openness that allows the person who’s coming in for work to show up how they are and allows you to show up how you are, no matter what’s going on in the outside world, like you said, like you come in with all of that imperfection. And what I found is those readings where I am fully open and fully, like vulnerable. And it’s not about me like talking about myself, but like, where I’m fully like allowing whatever is to come through. That seems like those are the readings that are like the most powerful and that people seem to get the most out of because I’m not doing this like show. You know what I mean? That for me myself? Yeah. Um, and I love I love how you described that too, because I think there are so many ways that words really fail what what the work really is. 

Scout Chavers  53:40  

And it’s better just leave people confused. I feel like I don’t, that’s why my bio ends up being so long, because I’m just like, I don’t really want to list everything that I do. Because that’s kind of obnoxious. Like, I don’t need to be like, hear all the styles of yoga that I teach and hear all of the different divination, like tools that I like to use, like, I don’t like doing that. But I also like, don’t love the terminology either, either. So I’m kind of like, well, I’ll just kind of say some stuff. And hopefully people will ask me about it. And then they’ll kind of know or, you know, like and I do also think that saying that you’re a healing guide. What it allows people to do is form the expectation that they’re also going to have to show up and prepared to do work. Yeah, it takes a little bit of the pressure of like, you’re going to need to be doing work. This is a this is a heavily inclusive thing for you. It’s not just about me showing up and like giving you a band aid. Yeah,

yeah. And I also think there’s like a sense of openness that you have to have at all times, because I don’t know if your experience has been like this, but mine has where all of a sudden something is happening that has never happened before in a session with a client and I’m like, Okay, now I have to just pretend like this is normal. I’m not like normal, but like now I just have to kind of like take it in stride. And you know, figure out how to work with it. And again, you cannot have things like that happen and have your ego involved in it like you. Oh, yeah, I have to just be like, all right, like help me figure out what Do all of a sudden I’m seeing these past lifetimes and I don’t know what that’s about, like, that’s never happened before, yeah, yeah. Or, um, and so I think there is like a certain amount of surrender and like you said participation that that sets people up for because there’s, you know, even if I wanted to try to do it all myself, there’s only so much I can do if you’re not there. Like if you’re not ready to participate in your own healing.

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. It’s, it’s a, it’s a mutually beneficial exchange between the two of you, but also like it, they have everything to gain, but they have to show up for themselves. And that’s really what it’s about is we also don’t really learn in our culture, how to show up for ourselves, we know how to show up for everything else, we’re taught how to show up for school on time work on time, we’re taught to show up and do certain things at certain times of the year, like, keep our car registered, and make sure you go to the dentist, and all of these different things. But we’re not taught about self care, we’re not taught about how to make sure that we are okay energetically, spiritually, and how to find embodiment in our own self work. We’re not taught any of those things. So it can be difficult. But you know, that’s why that’s why people seek out guidance.

Yeah. And that’s part of the reason why I wanted to have interviews on this podcast in general, because I didn’t want to just be saying, This is my experience. And what I felt the entire time was like a buying, like, when I was going through, again, another word, I hate spiritual awakening. Going through this whole process, where like, these things that I, like you said, didn’t know that everybody wasn’t experiencing that I was experiencing, um, and was really kind of coming to terms with them. I kept like buying these books and trying to like, read and trying to use like somebody else’s way of doing things, which Yes, like other people can guide us and can, and can teach us about boundaries and, and staying safe and protecting ourselves and all of that, and that is so important. But I wanted somebody to just like, tell like, I wanted an instructional guide to Sheila’s intuitive gifts, and I was not getting it. And I was really frustrated. And one of the things that I really wanted to do with this podcast, and one of the things that I’ve realized recently is that I felt so lonely and like such a sense of isolation when I was going through this, and like I could only tell like, there was almost nobody in my life knew what was going on at for even my partner like I was like, Well, I’m not really sure it’s been like two years. I’m not really sure if I’m ready to like, spring on him, but that I’m seeing ghosts, like that’s, 

that’s a big one, like, let’s get into a little bit little at a time. Yeah,

Sheila M  57:45  

I was like, I’m really afraid that I’m going to be committed or something or that I might be losing my mind. And so I was really nervous about telling anybody. And it was very isolating, because for a long time, it was like just me, like figuring stuff out. And then I kind of started to find a little bit of community, which was great, but I really wanted to have people on so that other people could talk about their intuitive experience, because it is not, there’s not just one lane, there’s like millions and billions of individual ways that you’re going to connect. And I think hearing those stories from other people and having friends who are in these types of communities who have shared their experiences has been so helpful and so powerful to me. So, um, I just wanted to say that because I really, I do appreciate you like sharing so much about that as well. Yeah,

Scout Chavers  58:37  

thank you, I feel the same, I feel the same way To be honest, I really do. Because that was what took me so long to really settle into feeling like I was an intuitive and I also don’t really love I don’t identify heavily with the word medium. And a lot of that is because for a long time, I saw a medium as a very specific thing that I felt felt like I wasn’t. And I think that speaks a lot to what you were just saying before of like, everyone has their own avenues. And so like just realizing that for me, I don’t really like see things I don’t see and a lot of the mediums that I was aware of as a child saw things when I was like, that’s not me. I just definitively was like, that’s not me, I don’t do that. And so because I receive information in a different way. I just never thought that I that applied to me. And so I do think that it’s important to hear all the different ways that people receive this data into their bodies and into their consciousness. Just to know just to resist the temptation to constantly make ourselves wrong. Because I do think that’s something else that we we learn is just we’re trying to make ourselves wrong every step of the way. Yes,

Sheila M  59:41  

yeah. I love that. You said that too. Because I was having the same thing where I was like, I’m not physically seeingsomething so like, I must not be this thing. And and like that was like a whole experience for me to be like, Oh no, there’s there’s all these different ways they have a sense of things and that is clairvoyant It’s like definitely not my, my, like main thing. And so it was very interesting to me because I was like, oh, okay, then there is a whole process here that I didn’t even realize. Um, yeah, I want to talk, I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about the doula community that you run and the ethical non monogamy space that you run, because this kind of ties into to some of the embodied I mean, everything that we’ve talked about ties into the cards that I really feel like you embody. But I want to talk specifically about that, because I think it will kind of ring true with some of this stuff. So can you talk about your doulasupport circle? And how, how that work has really kind of redefined healing guidance for you as well.

Scout Chavers  1:00:55  

Yeah, I so so that work essentially got started. Because I realized while in the doula community, very, very quickly, I was seen as someone who just had a lot of information and I I never saw myself that way. I think a lot of that information that I had or came came with immediately, as soon as I became a professional doula, I would say because I was going to births on and off throughout my whole life, really. Um, so when I started doing it as a job, I think a lot of that information came to me from my intuition and for my lineage, and a lot of that stuff came to me from my ancestors, both like physically in terms of learning from them, but also just like, I think, intuitively into my body, and through channeling and so once I saw that I was a resource, I just asked myself, like, what are you gonna do with it? So I started exploring different trainings of like, you know, just the doula world in general. Like, I thought it was very strange. I took two trainings when I first started working just because I wanted to be seen as legitimate because code switching and to man patriarchy, and to I just, you know, me and my rebellious self, I was like, why are we doing this? If this is so useless and ridiculous, in terms of like, there’s nobody who regulates doulas. Like there’s nobody who can tell you that you’re allowed to be a doula are not allowed to be doula, there’s a test you have to pass. And some people don’t like that. I actually love it because doulas, it’s more spiritual and intuitive work anyway, we’re not medical professionals in any way, shape, or form. So I just really think that it’s all about having someone energetically being there with you. And what I realized very quickly is that I was seen as a resource and I didn’t want to train people in a traditional trading environment. And what was really missing not only for doulas, but for almost any profession, especially people who work in wellness and providing wellness for other people is there was literally just no self care built into anything. What I saw was that I just had a bunch of friends who were massage therapists, a bunch of friends who were doulas among students who were yoga teachers, a bunch of friends who like peddle out wellness to everyone who were like slowly breaking down inside. And I was like, What is wrong with this story. So I just started to weave self care, rituals, divination, and like all of that magic that I like to practice into my routines for working for being a doula and starting to iron out and outline concepts of how I extend care to clients, and then how I then reflect that care back onto myself. So that I was always keeping my cup full enough to be able to continue to give so that we may experience some sort of sustainability in this career. Because the average burnout rate for a doula I think still now is like two to two and a half years, three years Max, doing it as full time work before they then decided to like look for another job or, you know, find something else to supplement or they’re, they’re so tired, they stop taking clients, so then they lose money, and then they have to go find another job. So it’s just a very fast burnout rate. And because we are so needed, due to health care in this country being trash, and you know, many, many reasons, I was just like, we have to do better, we have to have to do better. So I decided to to just kind of coin the random things that I do, which are not super special, they are very, very normal um in terms of self care and working myself care into my structure of not only business but actual like wellness care for clients and call it the wild awake. doula method. So through the wild wake doula method, it’s really just about how to care for yourself and also how to care for clients intuitively, and wholly and fully. And I sort of just created a little like guinea pig mentoring group. I’ve been doing little, like little sense of mentoring people on and off through trainings for the last couple of years. And I really wanted this group to just sort of extend to me their needs, like what’s been happening with you, what do you need, help me figure out what I need to give to the rest of the community so that I could figure out Do I need to really start a training because I’ll do it if that’s what you’ll need. And I’ll just make it different than everybody else’s trainings. Do you all need mentoring and more one on one work? Do you need access to data like what do you need so that I can help you get it in So that exploration with them has been fantastic. It’s been one round of them so far, and they’ve been really, really great of helping me see clarity as well as allowing me to give back to them. And it’s also the cornerstone of what helped me you know, start the nonprofit in terms of collecting money to not only help them continue attending births for for people of color, and their families, but also providing access and redistribution of wealth. So, so that’s that sort of how that came to be. And how I started to hold that space in the doula community.

I love that. And I, I think there is something in particular, because when we first met you were talking about that work that you were doing. And I was like, this is so important. And it is like across the board, not taken care of for people. And one of the things that I was seeing also was a lot of the people who were coming in for me as clients for energy work. And Tarot, were people who are in a traditionally caretaking type of career. So I was having all of these like, burned out caretakers who are just like, exhausted, and didn’t really like no lie. I didn’t really have conversations about it. They were working with me and we would talk about it. But it would be like, you know, when they had time to get in, and I really started encouraging people, like, let’s not leave before you have the next one booked, because we know how it gets. And I’m the same way. I’m like, I watched myself do the same shit. So I know, I know what’s happening. So when you talked about the community that you created, I was just like, God, this is so needed like this is so like, this is such important work. Because I see it so much. And I can’t even imagine in, in the community that you support where there are kind of crazy hours and you don’t necessarily know how long you’re going to be there at birth is not predictable. Sometimes it’s the middle of the night, sometimes it’s during COVID. Like there’s all this different stuff happening. How much that is needed. Now more than ever.

Yes, I think that that’s, that’s one of the many ways that I feel like, my life has prepared me honestly, for this weird craziness of 2020 in COVID. I don’t like saying just COVID because I don’t think it’s just COVID but 2020 in general. Yeah. Like we’ve all I’ve been prepared for COVID because my life has been, you know, enveloped in unpredictability. I think that not only you know, going past, just being like a queer black woman in America and the unpredictability of that. But also, just being the space of being a doula and being on call and not knowing when someone’s gonna call you for labor not knowing when during the day you might have to stop and change gears. And so I think that we are we as doulas are very, very prepared for unpredictability. And that is a skill set that needs to be utilized. And it can’t be especially for this planet as like, you know, things are starting to catch on to fire. But literally and figuratively. It can’t be used if we’re all exhausted. And if we’re all like, sitting in the corner, you know, dehydrated and exhausted from all of our work. Basically, I think that 2020 has shown us that we as a culture, we have a lot more work to do. So it’s time to rest. It’s time to recharge, it’s time to create sustainability and get to work.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love it so much. Um, and then you also hold your ethical non monogamy circle. What drew you into that? Obviously, it is a similar type of space holding work that you’re doing. But what really drew you to that which is like a little bit of a departure from just like the doula community.

Yeah, I it’s so weird. It’s such a departure. But then I feel like it’s not. I went through so many years of my life where I felt like I was doing too many different things that weren’t relatable in terms of just being like a doula, but also like a sex educator and also being a non monogamous person who likes to share community and space with those people. And then I slowly like as I turned 30 realize like, Oh, this is all the same stuff like over and over and over again in different spaces. And really what led me to hold that space is just being a non monogamous person and wanting to be in community with other non monogamous people, but also realizing that a lot of non monogamous people that were in community with me and Austin here are also in the spiritual community are also in the energetic community are also in the caretaking in a lot of caretaking facilities and in workspaces and so I just slowly started to realize that I see non monogamy ethical non monogamy I should say, as like one of my many spiritual paths, it makes me better it challenges me and it also just, frankly, forces me to do Shadow Work like pretty much all the time and so because of that All of those things, and the unpredictability and just the freedom aspect. It taught me to love. And in a different way It taught me to love in a more aware way. Yeah. And so I really like to bring all of these self care tools and the divination tools that I bring to the doula community also to that community as well. It was actually the cornerstone of this period of my life in this brand that I have been building is like love wild awake came first before scout wild awake before birth, wild awake, there was love wild awake. And that came to me channeled like through my intuition and meditation, had no idea didn’t come up with it wasn’t being creative, like randomly just came to me. And it was because I asked myself when I was still in my former marriage, where we started exploring ethical non monogamy together, like two or three years before, before, we inevitably went our separate ways. I just kept coming out of meditation, realizing like, I feel like I’m just really wide awake, like, I’m really, I’m loving in this wild, Primal way with like, you know, less rules and structure than I was grown up with, but or that I was raised with, excuse me, but I, but I also feel like I’m really awake, I don’t really have time to go to sleep. And in my marriage, I felt like, although we were very young, and, you know, in, in our discovery modes, I felt like we were already getting to that place of like, we were falling asleep at the wheel. Like I was like, Oh, my God, we’re like ignoring each other already. Like, we’re not even growing. We’re just falling into this mundane. And I don’t think that’s true about like all people who were monogamous, but that’s what we were doing. So I yeah, realizing that I was realizing that and I was slowly waking up to it.

Sheila M  1:11:39  

I love that you said that, too. Because I think I think that sometimes, because I think there’s so much judgment that can come from the cis straight community about that. I think that there is kind of this idea that you must judge them back. But it’s Yeah, it’s not. It’s not really like that. Yeah. 

Scout Chavers  1:12:01  

It doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive. either. I feel like we live in that society of good, bad, right, wrong. And it’s like, monogamy is not wrong. And ethical non monogamy isn’t wrong either. Like they can both exist in the same space. And maybe one is just not for you. But

Exactly, exactly. And that’s the thing. It’s like, I think, because I I kind of grew up in this way that you know, I grew up in a very conservative, very Catholic household. And so my experience of what was a relationship and what was normal, normal in quotes. And what was expected, was, like, totally in contrast to how I felt, even as a kid would be like, who like genuinely, truly, still, to this day, I’m like, Who cares if someone is gay, that is the end of my business. Like, I can’t even describe how much it’s none of my business. Like I can’t, like I just, it’s so irrelevant. And even I was talking to a friend recently about gender. And I was like, it’s so interesting, because we get like, so obsessive about gender. And I have always felt like cognition and gender and sexuality were like a spectrum and not an either or kind of thing. Because that’s the way that it feels to me energetically. And even as like, as a kid. Before I knew that I was picking up on that stuff, like I would pick up on all this subtlety. And the world that I was presented with was one that was very, this or that, and like, good or bad. And it just like, I think it’s one of the reasons that I just never connected with religion, because I was like, this doesn’t seem like you were saying, like, this doesn’t feel true to me, at least, intuitively, even when I was really young, I was like, This isn’t right. Yeah, something’s wrong here. 

My grandmother would look at you and say what she used to say to me when I was a child, which is like, Oh, you’ve been here before. And my grandmother used to say that to me all the time. She’s like, you’ve just lived too many lives that you came back and you’re like, by the way, this is bullshit. Like from a very young age, like very, very, and just already knowing and

Sheila M  1:14:25  

it’s so fun. It’s so interesting. And even like, within my family, so I’m the oldest of four. And even within my family, only one of my siblings is like, still religious and the rest of us are not. And, and it’s just, it’s, it’s very interesting to see you know, how things have kind of expanded and my middle sister says all the time, like, you know, only now cuz she’s a lot younger than me and my sisters are 11 and nine years younger than me. So like, there’s a lot And she’s like, you know, only now that I’m an adult Can I appreciate like, how how much work you did on the front end to try to like, shake them a little bit, you know, prepare them a little break through things because she’s like, I realized that my experience with them was like, completely different than yours. And I thought it was hilarious because I was such like, such a good like such a good girl, when I would put all you know what I mean? I got great grades. I never got in trouble at school. I never got arrested. I didn’t. I didn’t drink. I didn’t do anyget into anything. No fun

Scout Chavers  1:15:39  

Same, same- trying so hard to be good trying

Sheila M  1:15:43  

to be good. Like desperately, and my parents still, like always treated me like I was like such a rebel or like, so high maintenance. And yes, I’m like, Are you kidding? are getting arrested, people are getting DUIs, at like all like, you should be so lucky to have somebody that just has like a peace of mind. You know what I mean? And what’s hilarious about it is now that I’m older, like my mother would say to me, Well, I just never like I never worried about you. Because like, you’ve always kept your own council. Like, as a parent, it’s annoying as shit. but then when you’re older, I knew you weren’t going to take any shit from anyone. Yeah. Like, like, from the time you were like, 10, you would be like, no. Like, I can remember like, telling her about somebody like bullying at school. And like, she was like, do you want like, do you want to talk about it? I was like, Well, I think he’s just insecure. And she was like, Oh, well, yeah. Okay, so to

Scout Chavers  1:16:45  

sure, thank you for reading that whole situation yourself. 

Sheila M  1:16:48  

Exactly, exactly. But anyway, other than to say that, I think it’s so cool. Like you said, they are like seemingly very different things. But you kind of bring this similar energy to all of the different types of work that you do, which I think is so cool. And which helps me narrow down on what cards I really feel like you embody. And I had trouble in the beginning. So it’s like, I really don’t want to have too many, you know, but so first of all, definitely, with the lovers card, because I, I see how much you hold up this mirror of reflection, and really show people in all of these different areas, like, I’m holding up this mirror to show you what’s going on, like I’m reflecting this stuff back to you, because you’re not taking care of yourself the way you should. And you’re not advocating for yourself the way you should. And you are asking like other people to do it for you. And this is what you really have to like it’s not outside of you, it’s inside of you, and all of them inside job. And so I really, I really feel that with the lovers card. And like, like that was like the first thing because I like cards will like pop into my head all the time when I’m talking about people. And I remember early on on one of our calls, when you were talking about the program that you were working on, I was like, Oh my gosh, it’s like the lovers card. Like you’re like literally doing this work of holding people accountable to themselves and to their own needs for love, affection, self care, relationships, like all of these different areas. So I love that one for you,

Scout Chavers  1:18:27  

thank you,

Sheila M  1:18:29  

And then the Empress card. Because I always think of the Empress card as it’s about a lot of the thresholds in life, right. And so I think that there, so much of the doula work that you do, like you said, it’s all of these different initiations that we go through, and that we then need to kind of like recognize and bring this kind of joy and, and abundance of energy and awareness and happiness to, but it’s also about getting comfortable with receiving so like, yeah, which is so hard, like so hard for women, especially, or female, identifying people, especially, or female socialized people, especially all of your value and your growing up is taught to you in what you can do and how you can care for and be of service to other people. And so I think it is so valuable in what you do now that you are offering people the opportunity to receive this care so you’re both holding up the mirror with the lovers card to really show them that this is necessary and so needed and so worthwhile. And then with the Empress card, really teaching them both through I think personally through your behavior and and like leading by by doing and also by holding this space in community to say no like this is something that you need to show up for consistently. And this is something that you need to do for yourself. And there is nothing that you can do and no way that you can show up for another person if you’re not showing up for yourself.

Scout Chavers  1:20:08  

Yes, and it’s so funny that you say that about about my cards, and I feel so complimented. Thank you, the lovers is actually the most common card that I ever draw ever since I first got my first deck ever. And the Empress I love what you said, because that closely heavily relates, when I did my Kundalini training, I’m sure if you’re familiar with Kundalini Yoga, I was appointed a name, of course, like a Gurmukhi name. And the meaning of my name was like, live by example. Like you were the living example. Like if you continue to do the things yourself, which is a great practice for me, especially as a Virgo. Because I can preach, preach, preach, but if I’m not actually taking care of myself, What are you doing? So actually, my own self care being woven into my profession is a strategy of mine. But also, you know, how I burst everything that I do you know, what I mean? is holding other people accountable. I hold myself accountable as well.

Sheila M  1:21:02  

Yeah, yeah. I love that. And, and I love these two cards. And I also think they’re cards that are often like misunderstood, too. So I’m happy to have kind of a living, breathing example of them for people to reflect on as well, because I think it also helps bring kind of language to some of these cards that can be challenging for people.

Scout Chavers  1:21:23  

So yeah, I love that you do that. I love that you do that I that’s that’s how I learned every that’s how I learned astrology. And how I learned Taro was like, just looking at people’s charts like it like specially famous people and just being like, Oh, these are the attributes that I can notice about their personality. And then, with cards, I love paying attention to how you like to associate, honestly, like, like, almost like personifying the cards by giving them like human emotions, because it helps me feel like they’re expressing themselves more authentically, as I read more cards. So I just love that you do that.

Sheila M  1:21:53  

So I’ll see them with people and also see them with experiences, like on the episode I did with our friend, Winifred. And we were talking about her closing her physical store. And I was thinking in the moment, I was like, Oh, this is such like an eight of cups thing. Because like, yeah, you just knew it was the right thing that is so hard to do. And she she’s like, Oh, it was it was like it’s total eight of cups moment for me. And I was like, Yes. And so I love like, how that is because I feel like it gives people such a different context to understanding to. So this is so wonderful. And I I can’t even I can’t even tell you how much I appreciate it. I love having conversations with you, because they’re always just amazing. And really powerful. And I think, a very different perspective than a lot of other people that I’ve had on so far. And will have on because I’m, again, trying to pull people from kind of all these different areas and not just yeah, traditionally witchy things but things are kind of on the fringe and also like entrepreneurs, you know, and they Yeah, nobody is just one of those things. So can you tell people how they can work with you how they can get in touch with you? And what is the best way to stay involved with your work? And I will link everything up in the show notes, but I just like to let them know. 

Scout Chavers  1:23:13  

Thank you. Awesome. Yeah, of course, I have many a Instagram, so you can definitely find me @scoutwildawake is really how you can find me, you can find me at And you can also find me on Instagram under scout wild awake, I believe the Facebook page is wild awake wellness. So you can find me in those spaces just to keep up with me what I’m doing. You can also inquire about working with me as well in any capacity. So you do not have to be a doula to work with me in any way. Whether it’s you want to get a reading with me or maybe you’re looking for some coaching or some guidance in any in any way. I work with a lot of entrepreneurs, small business owners, a lot of parents just in general people who are exploring their own relationship with themselves or with sensuality, things of that nature. And you can just keep keep updated. Keep your ear to the ground because I have a lot of new things launching as we finish off this, this crazy, crazy year. And we’re settling into 2021. So you can find all of the different links to other projects that I’m involved in like conscious coven, which is a sister project of mine that I do with another beautiful black witch. That’s a friend of mine. And we help people of color reclaim magic is their birthright that you can find all of those links at scout wild awake on Instagram. So thank you and thank you so much for having me. I’ve been dying to talk to you. So this is I know I know.

Sheila M  1:24:40  

This has been so great and especially it’s like a bright light and in the haze of the day after the first so we’re recording this The day after the first debate. Yeah, a heavy day. So this is like in my day, so thank you so much for being on Scout. Appreciate it.

Scout Chavers  1:24:59  

I appreciate you, too. Thank you.

Sheila M  1:25:05  

Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you love today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me @StarSageSpirit and let me know what you learned, what surprised you and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episode show notes, you can head over to