Channeling, Creation & Embodying the Magician with Davis Carr

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In Episode 4 of Living Tarot, I speak with Davis Carr, a tarot reader and astrologer based in unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe Nation (aka Ottawa, Canada). Davis and I discuss her journey into divination, tarot, and astrology and how she sees the birth chart as a map to connect with your authentic self.  Davis’ work focuses on practical applications of astrology and the ways which astrology can lead us to a deeper understanding of ourselves.  She is the true embodiment of the Magician card and we will talk about why that suits her and how it has helped her continue to innovate in her work.

  • We talk about Davis’ introduction to divination, and when she knew that she was being called to this work.
  • We discuss how important it is to show up for clients as a clear channel, and to deliver readings without judgement 
  • We also speak about how trusting your intuition is a more of an ever-evolving journey than a destination.

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Check out this episode!


Sheila M  0:05  

Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium, and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. Each week on this podcast I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure, and embodied the Tarot along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing. Empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the Tarot. 

Welcome back to Living Tarot. I’m so delighted to have my friend Davis Carr on the podcast with me this week. Davis isn’t a tarot reader and astrologer based in Ottawa, Canada. Using the birth chart as a map, Davis helps people connect to their authenticity resolve the tension in their lives and discover how they can evolve and grow to become the best version of themselves. She uses Tarot to interpret messages and uncover the subtle energies at play, and helps guide her clients toward their own inner knowing. Above all else, she acts as a channel between her clients, the higher self and their guides. Davis is passionate about making astrology and Tarot as accessible as possible, and is currently working on a series of foundational astrology classes as well as co creating the Hollow Valley Tarot coming in 2021. In this episode, we talk about Davis’s work, how it has evolved over time, and how she really embodies the Magician card and the subtler energies that kind of weave throughout that card. I hope you enjoy this episode. Let’s dive right in.

Today I have Davis Carr on Living Tarot with me and I’m so excited to have her here. And we met several months ago in a business development type incubator program and hit it off right away because we are both Tarot readers and connected on that. But Davis I’m so excited to have you here today. Can you tell us who you are, what you do, how you bring life into this world? 

Davis Carr  2:33  

Thank you so much so much for having me. It is a pleasure to join you in conversation and I’m just really excited to dive deep and chat with you about Tarot and get super nerdy about intuition. I am a tarot reader. I am an astrologer. I am also an energy worker. And, you know, magic and astrology came into my life about four years ago. Now, but it really has been in the last two years, but I felt a really big calling towards doing it and creating a container for my practice. And that’s like really how radiant Taro my business was born was just me really wanting to figure out a structure and container through which to share my work with the world. And just like I got really excited about magic in astrology, and I wanted to share that with people and I wanted to meet people like you who are also into these things and have really nerdy conversations about Tarot and intuition. So I’m living my dream basically. 

Sheila M  3:37  

I love that so much. I love that whole I agree and relate on a lot of different levels. And I know we’ve had conversations offline about this, but tell us a little bit about your background and kind of how things started for you like what, what initiated you into this whole calling 

Davis Carr  4:00  

Yeah, well, my my background is in nonprofit communications and in digital marketing, so I have a pretty, I have a pretty traditional background for a digital marketer. As a kid, I was really obsessed with Harry Potter and Digimon. And I loved I like was really into the fandom. And so I started, I taught myself Photoshop and Illustrator, and I’ve taught myself how to code because I wanted to be part of these online communities. And it was through participating in these online communities that I started to write. I got really into fiction, and it just really was this underlying creative current throughout my life. I went to university and studied liberal arts and philosophy. And very interestingly ended up studying sort of the history of Western civilization through my undergraduate program, and I was very much focused on post modernism and post writing realism, killing God and tearing down all of the institutions. And that while I was there, I just got really involved in so many different forms of communications projects. So, right I was involved in the school newspaper, and I did posters for the theatrical society, and I was the communications officer for these theatrical society. And when I graduated, I just felt like, I had this collection of skills. And it wasn’t until I figured out that, like, the word communication is what I want, I needed to type into Google to find the jobs. I could do like that. That was really the first time that I was like, oh, okay, here, here’s a label for, for who I am and what I do. And for a very, very long time, my life was very much devoid of magic. I was very, I would say much more along the political and ideological end of things like I’ve always worked for nonprofits. In sort of that leftist environment, and that’s been very much part of my upbringing, and as part of my belief system, but it was just very practical for me, I was just like this I show up and I do I have skills and I should, I should give my skills towards a good organization that does good in the world. And it wasn’t until 2016 that I actually met a, I made a new friend at one of these progressive organizations, and she had a tarot deck. And she was the first person I had ever met who just had a tarot deck like she just had this thing that that she used on a regular basis. And until then, I’d only known about Taro as just like a thing which is dead in movies. But she had this deck and it was very progressive and feminist and so I followed her lead and I bought the same deck and I boAtheught a guidebook and that was really my first foray.

Sheila M  7:01  

And okay, so before that, did you like what kind of what were you taught growing up where you kind of taught about tuning in with intuition? And then once you’ve got your deck, did you do a program? Are you self taught? Like, how did that work for you?

Davis Carr  7:21  

So my background is I’m raised by two Atheists. One, my father grew up in a very religious household, a very conservative religious environment. And he very much rejected that growing up. And then my mother grew up in a very progressive socialist household. She grew up in Geneva, my grandfather worked for the International Labor Organization and my grandmother worked for an organization called the Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom. So it was like her environment was very much like, pacifist, socially progressive Like all of these things, and so that was very much the milieu in which I was raised and you know, I would say like feminism was more of a religion than anything else in our in my upbringing which I’m very very grateful for. But there’s a huge gap in my knowledge around religion and it is it was very much framed as God does not exist that is not for you like that is not a thing. So my now getting more into spirituality has been a really really big change and is something that I to be honest with you and really recommend like struggling to reconcile with like it is a very big a big left turn for me. But it also feels like coming home and a lot of ways because as a kid I loved mythology and I loved you know, I love the idea of connecting with something bigger than yourself. And and now of course, because I have studied traditional astrology, I actually can see the ways that all of these patterns are embedded into Western thought in general and all of our ideology. So I’ve sort of I found I’m coming towards figuring it out. But yeah, it’s very, this is not typical for my family, for sure. 

Sheila M  9:26  

I think that’s so fascinating to me too, because my experience was so opposite, in that I was raised in this very conservative, very Catholic upbringing that I always struggled to connect with, in the way that I saw my parents Connect, like, my parents would leave church and they felt like great, I’m like, you know, like, renewed and I felt like I was the weird one because I just did not connect with it in that way. And so it’s so interesting to hear from somebody who had like the complete opposite upbringing but kind of has ended up in a similar place. And I know even though we do different things, I think it’s very interesting because I’ve kind of struggled to reconcile that past with the new version of spirituality that I’ve kind of always known but had a hard time connecting with or feeling the authority or the agency to connect with as I was growing up. So I think that’s so fascinating. 

Davis Carr  10:27  

Yeah. And it’s, it is really fascinating because, you know, we each grow up in our own circumstances, and you don’t know what it’s like for other people. Something you know, something as simple as the idea of prayer. I don’t know how to pray. I prayer is not a part of my life. I was listening to a podcast episode about prayer, and it’s like about prayer and astrology and it was with one of my astrology teachers, Atutu Baba Dasa, who’s very spiritual in his approach. And so yeah, it was all about prayer. And I realized, like, I don’t know what this action is. And then of course, you know, I did some thinking about it and a tarot reading is our prayer. Like when I sit down and connect with my guides, that is prayer, but I’ve, I’ve had to cut like, Tarot was my way into intuition. astrology was my way into intuition. Whereas I think for other people that was, it’s more. I don’t know what it is for other people. That’s not my experience. Yeah. But I never say yeah, 

Sheila M  11:40  

yeah, I think that is so I think it’s so interesting. And so, so you got this terrible rash you started to learn? And what was your experience like with that? Did you teach yourself Did you take courses like what kind of helped you deepen that connection with something that you didn’t think? Have context for a really, really.

Davis Carr  12:02  

So the first two years of my practice, it was very light. I had the guidebook I had my deck and Around this time, like I really do have to credit just the burgeoning of what I call Tarotgraham in general, like Chani Nicholas is obviously a really really big influencer in this field. And it was through her work that I discovered astrology. And so Tarot and astrology have always been hand in hand for me. And Channing Nicholas does these new moon workshops and for about two years, every single month, I like most every more or less every month, I would buy one of those and I would sit down and I’d write out all of the transits and everything she said and I would, I didn’t know she would say things like sun squaring Saturn and I didn’t know what it meant, but I just absorbed it. And I would do full moon rituals and New Moon rituals and I would usually do a tarot spread and I journal about them. And that but that was pretty much it. And it was very, it was very private. It really wasn’t something I ever shared because I felt so weird doing it. This was also just in my life in general. It was the first time I was living in Ottawa, which is the city where I grew up and where I currently live. It was the first time I was living in Ottawa, in my own apartment with a roommate, because I had gone to school in Halifax, and then I lived in Toronto. And so it was my first time feeling like an adult in this way and really feel I shouldn’t say feeling like an adult, but I really felt like in control of my life and a very, very different way than I ever had before. I was working, I had, like my vision in front of me. And so those those lunar rituals in my bedroom, were just so precious to me, because they were truly just for me. And I would occasionally post them on social media. But that wasn’t the point. It was just me slowly learning this language and studying something that I really enjoyed. Yeah, and I think and then I think that’s so interesting to like you were saying, like this first kind of sense of being an individual away from every other, like influence that kind of shaped you, you know, and I think there’s, there’s so much of that, how old were you then? So I was 20. I was 25 ,26, 27. And what I would consider to be like the first stage of my spirituality. Yeah, yeah, like right up until my Saturn return, basically. And then as my Saturn return kicked in, we’ve sort of gotten got into this this new stage of the business. Rolling Yeah, but for so long. Yeah, it was it was very private. And it was personal. And it was just for me. And then the change happened very, very suddenly. And I like it was very vivid for me because it was February 2018. I was in Geneva, visiting my grandmother with my mother, my brother, my sister in law, and my eight month old at the time, nice. My grandmother lives is she’s currently 97 she, she’s wonderful and amazing. Amazing. Yeah, she’s great. And so she lives in this retirement center. And it was all I don’t know how many of that’s five or six of us in a one bedroom flat in this retirement center in Geneva. And I remember when I was packing, not I was looking at my tarot cards, and I thought, should I bring these? And I said, No, whatever. I don’t need this. Like, I’ll just what I’ll just keep going and While I was on that trip, you know, there was a lot going on obviously, like if you’ve ever spent an extended amount of time with an eight month old, who’s just learning how to walk, you know, it was also there were eclipses happening there was astrologically speaking there was a lot happening in my chart. And while I was there, I just felt so many emotions, and so overwhelmed and I all I wanted was a way to make sense of them. And like I objective things that could tell me what I was doing. And I didn’t bring my cards. And I didn’t I didn’t have an outlet and all I could think was like, I wish I had this thing like this is what it is for and it is this is what the tools for and I don’t have it right now. And so in lieu of that around this, this time, like I started looking at podcasts and other ways that have sort of getting my fix and also around this time Tess Guyverson who is the city which on Instagram. They were interviewed on Lindsey Mack’s Tarot for the Wild Soul podcast today.

Sheila M  17:13  

Love LOVE Lindsay Mack. Yeah.

Davis Carr  17:15  

And I mean, like this story I feel like can really just like we told from there because listening to Lindsay’s podcast, as like, like for so many people it Her work is so different than what you find when you do just a Google search for tarot cards. And it’s really deep, and it’s really personal. And so I was attracted to her work and that led me to her course and all of that. Then, I came back from this trip and I literally turned to my partner asked like a shortly after I got back and just said, I’m really into this and I’m going to really commit to this like, just so you know, I’m I am getting into this. And I just said it and I spoke it into existence.

Sheila M  18:04  

And what was the response? Because I know, I know, for me, it was a really hard conversation to have. Because I came from this background of being like, like when we met and we had been together for a long time when everything kind of started happening for me that I was like a corporate project manager and a yoga teacher. And like, that was like about us. witchy as I was, and when it came time to be like, oh, and also spirits are talking to me. And also I just, like know, things that I don’t have an explanation for. I was real nervous to have that conversation because I was like, Oh, this is gonna be this is gonna be it like she was on the other foot. I’m not sure I’d be like, Oh, sure, honey, that sounds great. You know? 

Davis Carr  18:49  

Totally. Yeah. It’s a very scary conversation to have. Absolutely and I will say this is my partner is a wonderful and unique it. vitual and his response was like, okay, like utterly nonplussed and just like okay, sure if that’s what you want todo, like really he was very very nonchalant about the whole thing and he has been extremely supportive in general and and how we like literally the room that I’m speaking to you in is a den or like another bedroom in our apartment that I have completely appropriated formyself and for we call it the witchy room so of it so yeah, he’s

Sheila M  19:38  

I’m in my Reiki room. So this is like my practice. Yeah. Yeah, I love that I love like you were able to kind of step aside and have that conversation and, and having somebody that’s so like,

Davis Carr  19:54  

Absolutely it is. It is really it was really wonderful. But also I found it It was when we moved in together that I really started to have to intentionally carve out space for this my practice and also to share what I was doing. And it really did help me get more comfortable in just making this a regular part of my life and practically speaking, like, it’s awkward to have to tell your partner not to come into the room for 45 minutes to three hours because you’re doing trance work or whatever, you know, like, yeah, those are conversations you have to have with your partner. 

Sheila M  20:39  

Yeah, yeah. And, and I think especially when you have such different experiences of things and and where they might not come from that same background, it can be like a really big challenge. So during this time, how did that kind of shift how you were connecting with intuition and like, what What was that like to have that grow over time? And what does it really like look like for now? 

Davis Carr  21:05  

Yeah. I I’m really grateful you asked that question, because when I started this journey, I felt so insecure about my intuition. I felt that that was for witchy woo woo, soft spoken people who sit on mountain tops and meditate and, you know, like, all of those stereotypes. And, yeah, it really I really struggled with it. And it really did feel like something that not only did it not belong to me, but that it was weird that it was hard. And because it was hard, that meant I couldn’t do it. And you know, like all and I shouldn’t do it in general, because the only thing that matters is the political and all of these things. There was a lot of narrative around that and A part of it really just felt like I I couldn’t have done anything else. It really felt like a compulsion. When I, when I started to learn about Tarot and I read the book and I and listening to podcasts and hearing those people in the way that they connected, I really just felt like, I know, I want this. And I just kept looking for it. And I kept looking for it. And I kept looking for it until I started to find it. And it took a lot of different teachers. It took a lot of time. It looked took a lot of practice, it just you know of trying to do it over and over again. And then eventually what I realized is that I could just my intuition was just he was always there and the thing that was stopping me from listening to it was just my own brain and doubting it. Like once I just decided to believe that it was true. And I just decided to accept and say yes to everything I was feeling and my instincts and my gut reactions to things and just said, Okay, this is the truth for me and made that decision. It almost was like, I don’t want to call it a light switch, but it was a choice that I made. And then it just got practice saying yes, and yes, and yes to that. 

Sheila M  23:30  

Yeah. And I think that’s one of the hardest things. It’s one of the things I talk about in my high priestess embodiment workshop is how much we are taught to like outsource wisdom to other people our whole lives. And then people think that it’s just like, you make the switch. And it’s like, so easy to just like, oh, once I decided to listen to my intuition, it’s going to be like so easy immediately. And I think that, like what you’re speaking to is really true that like, you have to make the decision that you’re going to participate, but also that it’s not just like, it’s not like you’re just listening to a podcast, you know what I mean? It’s it’s a little bit different every single time. And I think it’s really important for people to realize that it is an active choice to listen to, like you’re saying, but it does take a little bit and, and a variety of inputs to figure out how it works for you. And I know that you spoke to that because it’s one of the things that I struggled with so much in the beginning because it is so individual that I wanted somebody so badly to just tell me what to do. I was like, just tell me how to connect to my intuition. Tell me how it works. Give me the guidebook. I bought so many books. I bought so many things. I mean, it was like, all of this struggle was like the whole genesis for my high priestess and, of course, but I love that you’re talking about it here because I think it’s so important for people to realize that you might need to hear people say something like 20 times in order to hear the person put the right combination of words together that you’re like, yes, that’s how it works for me. So I think I love that you spoke to that too.

Davis Carr  25:12  

I totally I am so resonant with everything you have shared it it’s so true. And I think back to my early insecurities when I was first reading Tarot especially because I would get anxious about I shuffled the cards wrong, is it reversed if I flip it like this, or if I flipped it like that like it and was all of these tiny things and what very practically speaking, one of the eat the best things I did for my practice is I just decided that this is the way I shuffle. This is the way I cut cards. So I divided them into for years I just divide I decided this is the way I do I divide them into three piles. And I take the middle pile because that feels the most random You know, I flipped from the bottom up, and that I just picked it. And I and I said, if so long as I do these things, whatever reading comes through is true. And I had like my little mantra and my little, like, recital, you know, thing that I would recite as I wish before a reading and I just decided, if I do these things, and if I do this ritual I have dropped in, therefore, I can trust all of the messages that come through. And so I think like, yeah, small things like that, if you just decide that they are true, they can be really, really helpful containers until you start to just embody that truth and really start to listen to that intuition. 

Sheila M  26:45  

100% that makes so much sense to me. And I think, I think it will to other people to just like hearing that and and how, how it can kind of shift over time too and it kind of moves along. with you as you, as you kind of strengthen things and build on what you’re doing, it will shift along with you in that practice tips too. So I know that you’ve started with tarot and then kind of gotten interested in Chani Nicholas and astrology. So what was that transition like and how did you kind of start to move just from from Tarot and intuition there into astrology because I know that’s like a huge part of your business now. 

Davis Carr  27:28  

Ah, so Tarot and astrology were always simultaneous. For me, they are parallel tracks. It’s just that Tarot is a lot easier to learn to do immediately, in my opinion. Now, I sort of think, Oh, cute, there’s only 78 cards. When you really get into astrology, it’s just so much more than that. But astrology also is a very, very difficult thing to learn when you are out lay person who doesn’t know what they’re doing and who doesn’t want to immediately spend $2,000 on God knows what it is one of the hardest modalities to learn, because there is so much information out there so much of what has been written in the last, you know, 20 to 30 years is there’s not a lot of there’s there’s not the underlying structure to it. So they’ll just say things like, oh, Venus means love, and trines are good. But there, there really isn’t that cohesive explanation. And so I started doing what a lot of people do, which is just looking up the different terms and looking up, like reading a basic book and trying to figure out all the sign placements and all of that. But it really was just me for four years desperately trying to piece together and astrological education, listening to podcasts, buying one off webinars, realizing like oh, I think traditional astrology is cool. I like that. I like that there are reasons for things, but not really knowing what to do. And then in the fall of 2019, I finally took the leap and signed up for the nightlight astrology course, which is a foundational, like, from the very, very beginning, like up until the more complicated concepts all about traditional astrology. And it was the missing piece that brought everything together. And so all of those four years of really memorizing and embodying the concepts and just sort of having all of this information loose inside my head, it finally had a place to sit. And so now I I just feel like I have gone from zero to 100 because I have the foundation that I’ve been looking for for so long.

Sheila M  29:56  

Yeah, I love that. I love that. So much.

Hey there, I’ve wanted you to be the first to know that I am offering a free training Tarot for real life Get Your Shit Together with the Tarot on Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 12pm eastern time, this workshop is extremely powerful. It talks about the top mistakes that new Tarot readers make, we will cover the neuroscience of Tarot and how it can stop the anxiety cycle, and the exact steps to follow to start reading effectively and efficiently for yourself. This is where the spirituality of the Tarot meets real life situations. And my goal is to have you leave that workshop, either with a reboot to your tarot reading or if you’re a brand new beginner with a good idea of how to get started. So you can sign up for that free workshop in the show notes today or if You already know that you are really interested in signing up for a tarot course, I will be opening the doors for my Tarot course for the last time for 2020 the course is called Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. It is a seven week Tarot course that takes you from brand new beginner to tarot reading Pro, and helps you learn how to bring that practice into real life, how to use the Tarot to help you make complex decisions effortlessly. So if that sounds good to you, you can sign up for the waitlist in the show notes today.

I took a free training that you did earlier this year that was so wonderful about the shift away from like kind of the simplicity that I think a lot of people attribute to astrology which is just horoscopes and your sun sign. And you were really trying to teach people a quick way to go a little bit deeper and I know that you’ve been Working on teaching some like astrology intro type work this year. So how how has that shift felt for you and your business? And what is it been like to really follow follow your intuition into this kind of different place? And also like what kind of what kind of blocks and stuff are you coming up against as you do that because I know that there can be a lot of imposter syndrome when we do step into this role of like teacher 

Davis Carr  32:33  

Oh, yeah, – a lot of imposter syndrome A lot of you I know enough Am I enough of an expert A lot of you know that self doubt really nagging at me it’s it’s a really new shift for me. It’s really only been in the last I guess six months or so that I’ve really started to take seriously my calling in to teach astrology especially intro level astrology. More people broadly and really, except, you know, admit to myself that this is something that I really want to do. So I just, I fundamently – It really annoys me that the answers and the secrets and the the underlying thing that locks everything into place is hidden behind a $2,000 paywall. And that is not a slide into the you know, the folks who do like those 30 week long programs, they are important and crucial and so great. But now that I understand how simple it actually all is, I just want to share it with the world. And I think it’s such a shame that people the lay person doesn’t have this many wants to approach and and they might pick up things like what I would consider to be some bad habits in astrology around really personalizing or overly identifying with their charts or seeing a bad placement and feeling like it’s a it means they’re doomed. There’s so much opportunity there and there’s a lot of misinformation and so I, I really do see it as part of my calling to try to like, you know, stop that ignorance and really like give people information and really share that with them. 

Sheila M  34:32  

Yeah, yeah, and I totally relate to that. Because when I was creating Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives One of the things that like I was really seeing was that so many people were going through some very expensive and again, like very high price point offerings that are not accessible to everybody. And also coming out on the other side and still not really knowing how that relates to their life. So like they might know how to read sort of, but they maybe don’t know how to put together a spread for themselves or spread for like a real life situation that’s happening. And I was like, that’s, it’s so frustrating to me to see people spend so much money and commit so much time in so much energy to something and come out on the other side and not have a practical use for it. Because I always say, as as witchy and intuitive and connected as I might be, I’m always about trying to bring things down to earth and down to like reality and help you in your real life, not just your spiritual life, like that’s great and it’s super fun. Like I, I use astrology like basically for like, just interest and I have a very rudimentary understanding of things. But I think it’s like a fun thing to tune into, but it can also be incredibly practical. And I think that that’s one of the things that you’ve done really well with somebody If you’re offering so let’s talk about like, Okay, well, like how does this inform your life? Not just, I am this thing, you know what I mean? I’m a Leo. And that means that I love to be the center of attention or whatever, you know. And so I think that that’s so interesting. 

Davis Carr  36:16  

Yeah, it’s, it’s really important to me because it is it can be such a practical tool, and especially in the ancient or the Hellenistic tradition, there was a very big emphasis on looking at the chart as a reflection of your entire life. So it’s, whereas in modern astrology is much more psychological. They’re sort of using it to look at like, okay, where are your mommy issues? Like what What’s your relationship to money? Whereas the age the Hellenistic tradition is like, where what’s happening with the money in your bank account right now? What is happening to your job, the way that you make money, and so you know, you can see things in the chart that are so much bigger than me. Just your personality. It’s almost like it’s like it’s, it’s like a very cute human thing, right? We’re like drawn to this thing because we just want to know about ourselves. And I love that. And I, that thrill of recognition is so poignant with astrology. But then once you’re there, you’re starting to learn about it. It’s I love it, because it’s like, oh, by the way, the secrets to the universe are here as well.

Sheila M  37:27  

I love that. So why don’t we? I was just talking about it earlier, I was talking to a couple of my girlfriends who are in totally different businesses, but we have like a monthly meetup where we just kind of check in and talk about business ideas and stuff and and we were talking about that and I was saying, you know, people come to me for a tarot reading because they want me to tell them what to do. But that is not my job. As a tarot reader. My job is to really provide them the information and the background. So that they can be empowered to make the best choice for themselves. And so I think it’s very, very similar to what you’re saying here because it’s about empowering people with information and not giving them a tool so that they can opt out of participating in their lives.

Davis Carr  38:19  

Absolutely. I love that. 

Sheila M  38:21  

Which I think is why we’ve always gotten along so well when we chat about these things is that we have such like a similar perspective. And I think that I could do that, you know, and you could do that you could sit down and you could look at someone’s chart, you could tell them, probably all kinds of things about themselves. And that might all be true. But it’s so limiting if you just tell them, that programmed stuff, because then they feel like completely disempowered and like there’s no way they can participate and freewill has has no say which is not true. 

Davis Carr  38:56  

And that’s that’s the last thing you want to do and when I am doing Reading and when I’m working with a client, I really trying to be mindful that I am not prescriptive and I am not deterministic. And because it can be very easy to fall into that language of Oh, you’re a Leo, you love being the center of attention. And that is very not true for a lot of people. There’s so much more going on. Well, one of the things that I am quickly learning as I start to do astrology as a as a practice is that in exactly the same way a tarot reading is about consulting an Oracle and receiving that divinatory message. astrology is divination. Looking at the chart is the exact same process as asking the universe for a message. And as I am transitioning my business into doing more and more of the astrology work. I think my background as a tarot reader has been really helpful in Honoring that and bringing in that similar attitude to my astrology practice. Most most, you know, specifically because I trust that when a client and I sit down virtually, and we create the container that the messages that come through our session are the ones that they need to know the questions they ask or the ones that they need, or the answers that they need in this moment, the messages that I feel share to give the examples that I share from my life or from other charts, the imagery that I use, it’s all part of the divinatory experience. And I really have to trust that the client is going to get what they need out of the session. That is the intention that I set. And actually, once I, once I remember like, Oh, of course I should be dropping in and Doing my you know my prayers to mercury as I do before a terror reading I should and while I’m shuffling I should also be doing this for my client before we sit down in front of a chart. I love that I and I think that’s so important too and just to kind of like pause and take that moment to really remind yourself to because I know it can be hard as a reader, whichever way you’re reading or healing to because I know you also do energy work and to remind yourself that you are not tied to and responsible for outcome which is really challenging. So hard. That is one of the most difficult things to do as a as a practitioner, I think. And that is one of the early lessons that I learned from Lindsay Mack and from the Tarot for the Wild Soul Course. That has been really, really helpful. And it also is a big part of how I work with my intuition is that I really and I think this is going to segue nicely into a question you’re going to ask me later, but I really channeled the Magician when I am working and I having being a vessel or a channel or I think of it almost like a straw down my center line, like just, you know, a Yeah, exactly a little metal tube or something. That is, that is sort of that’s part of my practice. And that’s how I prepare for readings. And that’s how I work is really to make sure that I I am a clear vessel. And so once you’ve done that work and like the and I guess this comes back to our earlier discussion about how intuition works for me is like these practices and rituals are so important because that’s how I create the safety of trust. I have to trust That if I set the intention and make myself a clear channel that I am a clear channel, that is the only way it works like you really have to have that will. Yeah Spoken like a true mercury person, I am sure. But yeah, that is that is part of my process. And that’s how I that create that container to trust that whatever happens happens for a reason. And

Sheila M  43:24  

Yeah, I love that so much. I know. And that was actually the next thing that I was going to segue into. So you you beat me to it, but I know I had reached out to you beforehand and asked because you are a reader, and which not everybody on this podcast is but I’m asking kind of what which card you really feel like you relate to and embody and it’s so funny, because when you said the Magician I was like 100% I can see it because I feel like just from knowing you and knowing the way that you work so much of what you do is kind of boring. down these these kind of higher level ideas into something that is very grounded and able to be like used by multiple people but it’s taking a lot of like all of the different elements of the Tarot, right so we’re talking about, you know the channel and bringing in the emotional piece with the cups and like that passion and that drive with the ones and the practicality of like the Pentacles. And like bringing things like into that earthiness. And like the wisdom that comes with the swords and like kind of combining it all into one thing and being able to then teach that and distribute that to other people. is so it’s so beautiful, like the way that you have that ability to do that. And I know from you talking about it and from from talking to you about other stuff in the past, but that whole like channeling and trance piece is a huge part of it. Which I also consider to be a huge element in the magician card is this ability to kind of bring these very challenging and like overwhelming ideas down to earth, which can be like you’re saying, Mercury helped me to communicate this thing. It’s something that I experienced a lot, especially when I’m doing like mediumship readings, is trying to take this big jumble of communication and put it into something that makes sense and and gets like either an emotion or something that is not as like exact and precise, into words and into creation.

Davis Carr  45:41  

Well, you just described magic basically, right.

Sheila M  45:46  

True, true. Yeah. Yeah.

Davis Carr  45:48  

No, and that’s, that’s really what I love most about the work and it’s all it’s a little bit addictive. I don’t know if you found this when you’re when you’re doing a reading for someone Or like that feeling of having it all coalesce. And because for me and it’s the same with, with tarot readings as it is for astrology readings where you start with just all of these different symbols, and there’s there’s that moment as you’re looking down at the spread and thinking like, oh, what how? What am I gonna say, what, how do all of these pieces come together? But then you start and you start to layer everything on top of each other and you start to share and then the client responds and you’re like, oh, okay, that’s what this means. Now, what is this? What is this say? And then suddenly you realize that it’s all connected. All of these themes are relating to each other, and it’s really built on on itself, this really beautiful way. And I, you know, over the years of learning of doing Tarot as a reader, I just learned to trust that anytime I would try to hedge my bets. think oh, no, the client doesn’t want to hear this. And I would say what I thought they wanted, it just would never land. And then when I, I just said the thing that I thought it always resonated. And so once you decide, well, it’s not me, it’s the cars and my job is just to read what the cards are saying that it’s not you. It’s the cards. 

Sheila M  47:22  

Yeah, yeah. And I think it’s so funny how, how sometimes too, when you can be in that mode, and then come down to like reading mode that you can get in your own way a little bit by like, making it more complicated. I still remember this one, like stands out to me all the time. I was doing this reading for a woman who came in and I didn’t know her. She was like, referred by another client. And so I didn’t have a personal relationship with her. And it was one of my like, early clients that I didn’t know you know what I mean? Like I was one of the first clients that I didn’t have a personal relationship with. And so I knew nothing. About her except her name. And I’m there and I’m doing the reading and the Justice card keeps coming up. And I’m like, and we were doing a career reading. And I was like, I do not understand what is going on here at all. But like, it was like three different times that came up, like I didn’t reshuffle and then it came up again. And I was like, Alright, I just got to, like, take this, like, literally at this point, I think. And I was like, are you involved in the justice system? Because this card keeps coming up. And normally the way that I read it is not quite so literal, but but she was like, Oh, yeah, I’m a judge. Oh, my God. I was like, This makes way more sense now. I think I felt like I was losing my mind a little bit because I was like, why does this card keep bugging me, you know? 

Davis Carr  48:42  

Well, and that’s part of that Clear Channel, right? Like want the one of the biggest things that gets in the way of that channel is our own projections and our own anxiety and our own fears about what it means about us. But if you just let it all come from Through and practice detachment from that if you make that space to be like, Hey, are you a judge? I find the one that always comes up for me in readings is when clients come and say like, I’m really confused. I don’t know what to do. I just feel like I’m lost in the in like the fog. And then invariably, seven of cups comes up. But I’m like, do you feel confused? And it lost in a haze? And yeah, cuz you’re really confused right now.

Sheila M  49:34  

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and it’s so funny. And you can tell me I don’t know, like how many readings you have been doing recently. But right now during this global pandemic, what has been so interesting because it is the first time that there’s been a collective experience going on that I’m doing readings, and I’m finding these themes that weave through so many different readings. like four months, like around here, I live outside Philadelphia. And we were hit very early on with the pandemic and be locked down from like mid March. I mean, we were like really locked down. And so early on, I kept getting the hang in readings for people and I was like, I mean, we are like literally in suspension, like having our whole world turned on its head and trying to like figure out what the new normal is. It made so much sense to me. But it was like, almost comical how often it was coming up. I was like, I get it like the tower and the hangs on. I get it, like pandemic vibes for sure. But it was very interesting to see some of those themes as they were coming up. And again, if you get too much in your own head, it’s very easy to get distracted and be like, no like this can’t possibly still be true again. Like I feel like I said This earlier today, it must not be true. Oh, absolutely. And when you doubt yourself, you miss out on the beauty of that and of the collective experience. And I know for me when I share with clients like oh, yeah, everybody’s getting you know, Justice right now or judgment like that can really relieve some tension for people. Yeah, yeah. And that’s one of the things I’ve been experiencing too is like, I’m like, this is so collective right now. Like, is it? I’m feeling it’s what so many of my clients are feeling like it is such a, it almost is like a relief for people to hear that as much as they are separated from so many other people that the experience is still connecting them to other people.

Davis Carr  51:50  

Yeah, absolutely.

Sheila M  51:52  

And so, kind of bringing things full circle. So what does this look like now in your everyday life your connection with intuition with astrology with Taro kind of how do you use it for real? 

Davis Carr  52:10  

It’s really changed since quarantine obviously, like, like so many people my lifestyle has changed dramatically since March. And I it’s really been in flux Actually, I really feel like I am in a bit of a turning point and a bit of a restructuring moment with myself care practices and and am I like my magical practices in general. And a big part of that is the business. For so long. My main relationship with Taro was doing one on one readings, but I’ve made the decision to temporarily not be doing one on ones, mostly due to my day job as a nonprofit communicator. But also because I was doing a lot of astrology readings in June and July and I taught my foundations of astrology course and in May and June and so I really just need a vacation. So I’m really in this period of rest a little bit of a moon phase as I change a bit of my you know, my energy work has been a really big part of my personal practice. I’ve worked extensively with Ashley Stinson, who practices a form of energy work called energy archaeology. That is fabulous. I also have a discount code if people want to sign up for her for her lounge about we can put in the show notes. I love that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she’s great. Um, so that, you know, really over like, initially, that was a really, really big part, a part of it and doing my energy work, but it’s really changing and I’m sort of figuring it out, but mostly Recently, I’ve actually been going through a bit of emotional turmoil in my personal life and a couple of things are really coming up to be processed and I’ve been turning to my tarot deck and it feels so good to like I forgot how good it feels to sit with your deck and pour your heart out and ask for help and be your most vulnerable and ask the question you’re most afraid of and then pulling a card and having it be the most gentle loving message shivers it Yeah. Yeah, no, that’s, I have not that’s the biggest. The biggest way that I have developed my relationship with my deck is literally by crying with it. And by asking it and being my worst self, and the most poignant readings I do are when I’m just like, why am I crying? so much? 

Sheila M  55:00  

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh so so so relatable I think and it’s one of the things that I talked about in my course a lot is I think that there’s this idea that you need to come into everything as like this perfect Clear Channel and that is just not human like is that yeah god bless if you’re like that but like that is not most people’s experience. 

Davis Carr  55:26  

And I think that’s really important for us to name because we just had that big conversation about clearing our channel and not letting like our human emotions get in the way. I think we really should differentiate between reading for a client and setting that boundary and like and oh but also still allowing ourselves to be human when we are working with clients and like we don’t have to be perfect we can like be feel like crap and still do it does still valid. I had, you know, some of my favorite readings in the world. I have been in the worst part mood ever but I put me in a good mood because I know I guess I just have to like put that on a shelf for a little bit and then I always feel better afterwards. But then that experience Yeah, of like going to your deck, feeling totally messy with dirty hands as Lindsey Mack would say like, people should really, really like that is how you do the work is when you show up feeling like crap and you open yourself up to what the Oracle can offer you. 

Sheila M  56:28  

Yeah, exactly. And I think I do I think that’s really important to kind of differentiate because I am not coming in that way for clients and I am fully clearing me out for that. But I think that that’s one of the things that was coming up a lot when we were talking about this and it’s one of the things that keeps people from bringing their spiritual practice into real life, which is why I I really do want to talk about it because I think it’s so important to know that you don’t have to always burn incense and love candles and be post meditation or post yoga or whatever it is. And you can really just show up with whatever turmoil and whatever anks is there and give that all an opportunity to process. And in in my world is one of the most effective ways to use Tarot as like just a tool for reflection and for kind of bringing things down to earth. I’m like a highly emotional person and can be very like extreme with my emotions, and also have like a background with trauma that has contributed to that as well, which I think a lot of people do. And so having that as a tool that can help me process has been so so helpful, and to not need to show up as perfect because I think what was happening for me early on was, I felt like I always had to be like in that mode, like in In order to do a good job or in order to do good work for myself, and like more and more, some of the best work I’ve done has been in those moments when like, like you said, like crying onto my deck and like sniffling and just like pulling card after card until like I feel whatever is going on, you know? 

Absolutely, yeah, I think looking at your tarot deck and your Tarot practice as a method of self care in the truest sense of tending to yourself and figuring out what you need and asking for help from it is such a such a beautiful gift. And I really I encourage everyone listening who has a practice or who is you know, working on developing that personal practice. When you are vulnerable with your tool and with your modality it gives back right like yeah, 

Yeah, yeah, it’s beautiful. Um, and so I think that’s like the main stuff that I wanted to talk about. But I do have -I would love your perspective as an astrologer. And I am putting you on the spot a little bit to give us a little bit of like a rundown on some of the astrology stuff that people get really hung up on. So I normally play a little game at the end, but I actually thought this would be like kind of a fun way to talk about things. And so the first thing, the first little buzz word that I wanted to talk about was your Saturn return, which is a big, a big topic that I know a lot of people get into what’s kind of like your quick and dirty description of that and how people can use that time to like, effectively connect to their lives and how should they view it, I guess 

Davis Carr  1:00:00  

So a Saturn return is when Saturn returns to the place in the sky, the exact degree and exact minute where it was at the moment of your birth. There. So there we all have planetary returns. We have a solar return is your birthday. That’s what astrologers talk about. You can have a Mercury return, you can have a Venus return, you could have a Pluto return if you lived to the age of 250, I suppose. So, but the Saturn return gets a lot of hype, I think mainly because mostly through timing. So the Saturn return typically will happen between the ages of 27 and 29, although it really depends for people. But there’s a number of other transits and activations that happen in the chart between the ages of 24 and 29 that are very poignant, and I think a lot of the The Saturn return hype is actually some of those other transits that are happening. But that’s my personal theory. So but during the Saturn return people say because Saturn is the outer most visible planet, it represents endings structure, death, authority containment, it’s very much you know that cranky old man slash wise hermit. Saturn has a lot of different meanings. But one of the big markers that people It’s said to be a marker of adulthood, you are crossing a threshold because Saturn represents age and maturity. And for the ancients, that was the last visible planet so it’s sort of this big moment of Okay, you’ve fully been around the circle now you can enter this new stage of your life. The Saturn return happens every 27 to 29 years and for most people, that is a moment where you are making big decisions. Around the career that you’re you have with you’re going to have children it really is this big moment this Yeah, a portal into adulthood.

Sheila M  1:02:09  

Yeah, I love that so much. And, and this is really interesting so I didn’t get into astrology at all until after my Saturn return. I’m almost I’ll be 35 in a couple weeks and 

Davis Carr  1:02:22  

so you’ve gone through your second Jupiter return oh wow oh my god are going through it perhaps we’ll have to look at your chart to find out so exciting. 

Sheila M  1:02:32  

Um, but I realized the other day because I looked at like a like calculator to figure out when exactly it was. And I realized that right after it completed, I shifted my dating life and what I was looking for and completely so I decided to go back to online dating and have like a completely different attitude with it where I was like, Okay, I’m going to spend no more More than 15 minutes a night on us, I will commit to going on one date a month. And if I like the person, I’ll go out again. But like, I’m not going to be like, I need to be going out with as many people as like, I was like, I’m just making it simple for myself because I I just I don’t have the time or patience. You were making rules for yourself. Yes. And then. So within five months of that, I met my partner who I’ve now been with for five years. And I was like, it like blew my mind. I was like, Oh my gosh, when I realized the timing of like, when that returns finished, I was like, Oh my god, that’s so weird. That was literally like that month, I went on the first of five dates, the fifth one being my now partner, like once a month for five months. And I was like, This is so crazy. So I just I thought that was really cool. So I wanted to talk about that one. I also wanted to talk about what can people learn from their rising sign because they think that’s one of the things that’s really misunderstood by people. 

Davis Carr  1:04:00  

Absolutely, there is a huge emphasis in pop astrology on our sun science, which makes a lot of sense because it’s based around days and birthdays, and it’s very easy. The rising sign represents whatever zodiac sign was on the horizon at the moment of your birth. And for the ancient Greeks, this was the most important place and it was in fact, one of like the biggest contributions and like just distinguishing features of Hellenistic astrology is the invention of the ascendant. Fun fact for you, and so the ascendant represents the moment where the soul enters the material world, it’s going from the underworld into the light that and it is on the horizon, rising upwards, hence rising sign. So what the rising sign does is tell you what zodiac sign goes. In the first house, and there’s many different house systems as a traditional astrologer, I use whole sign houses folks could Google what that is. But what that does is what it tells you is whatever zodiac sign is on the first house, the sign that comes after it in zodiacal order, that’s going to be the second house to rise up. And then the sign that’s after that is the third sign to rise up. And so that tells you what zodiac signs align, which each with each of the houses and the zodiac signs sort of serve as the intermediary between spirit and the world and and you know, those those bigger forces and the material world. They’re what ground those forces into our life. Everybody has the same 12 houses. So, but everybody is going to have different combinations of signs and houses, planets and certain houses and houses. is telling you what part of your life, those energies are affecting. So there’s a house dedicated to your money. There’s a house dedicated to your siblings. There’s a house dedicated to your family and origins. There’s a house dedicated to your children, and so on and so forth. 

Sheila M  1:06:17  

Yeah. I love that I love I think that’s so important too, because, like I said, I am a Leo sun sign. I’m a Sagittarius rising. And I relate much more to Sagittarius, Leo, but I do still have like some of some of those elements. And obviously, there’s a lot more to it to an entire chart, but it was really interesting to me when I kind of learned about like, that kind of soul essence piece, like you talked about is like, I was like, Oh yeah, I was like that makes a lot more sense to me. And and, and it was kind of the first foray into it being more complex than just your sun sign, which I thought was really cool. And then because this is a podcast about in intuition. If you had to give people advice based on how they were kind of looking at their chart, and they want it to, and again, I’m putting you on the spot with this, but they want it to get a little bit more of an idea of how to connect with their intuition kind of based off of their chart, what would you tell them to, like pay the most attention to our look at? Just I know, I’m like, super putting you on the spot here.

Davis Carr  1:07:26  

Well, to be totally honest, my answer is to go to where I will put up links to my different resources. And I created a free download that is about your sun, moon and rising and it’s really designed to help put those pieces together. I am also hosting as we speak. It’s going to be at the end of the month but by the time this is released, it will be uploaded onto my website. I’m going to be hosting a workshop on how to read your birth chart. That really goes through what to do with it, and how to begin that journey. Because it’s a very, very complicated topic. But the non self promotional answer to your question is really the first thing I would advise people to do is Don’t panic. Because it is very overwhelming. And you are going to when you look up your chart, you’re going to see a ton of symbols, you’re going to see a lot of lines, you’re going to see graphs that you don’t understand, and it’s going to feel very, very overwhelming. And so in whatever astrology software you are using, go into the settings turn off aspect lines, if you see a button that says no aspect lines or you know aspects off, click it, that will remove the lines and it will make things a lot easier for you to look at. But just go slow. go really slow and take it one step at a time. And allow yourself to follow the vein of research wherever it leads you. Because when you are first looking at a chart and when you’re starting to figure, okay, Mercury and Libra, what does that mean? You know, it really you can just start googling some phrases and just see what comes up but only believe about 10% of anything you read like it really the amount of information out there is overwhelming, but most of it is crap. So, you know, you really have to be careful when you are first starting to research. But taking it lightly, giving it you know, a lot of play, being playful with it, taking time and trusting that it’s the beginning of a lifelong journey. And you’re going to have lots of opportunity to learn how the pieces all fit together. 

Sheila M  1:09:50  

I love that. I love that. And I think that’s I think that’s so important. There’s like this sense of like gentleness and I know we both share that kind of same philosophy with our Teaching of being like really kind to yourself and not needing to be perfect when you start out which I think is so important. And so with that where can people find you and obviously I will share your website and everything in the show notes but if people wanted to find you on Instagram on social media, your website if you can just give us the whole rundown you can find me on the Internet at I am on Instagram @MeridianTarot. I am also on Facebook if you want to get the BI monthly posts that I do over there and I have a newsletter that I suggest people sign up for especially if you are interested in taking more courses or working with me one on one. My books will be open later on in the fall. But in the meantime, I am going to be teaching lots more classes and workshops and good good exciting things in store. So I invite folks to find me On Instagram, sign up for the newsletter and visit 

I love it. I love it so much. Um, and I also know that you are in the process of working on your own tarot deck with a partner. So I’m hoping to next year have you guys on when your project is kind of coming to completion so that we can talk a little bit about what that process has been like, and share everything about the deck, which I mean, I love a new tarot deck. I have way too many. I love it. I love a new tarot deck. So um, so I would love to have you back on then. Thank you so much for being here today. And obviously we will have to have you back on.

Davis Carr  1:11:42  

Yes, please. I can’t wait.

Unknown Speaker  1:11:45  

Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you loved today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me @StarSageSpirit and let me know what you learned, what surprised you, and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episodes show notes, you can head over to